The Outer Gods are mysterious beings mentioned throughout the lore of Elden Ring. They do not appear to manifest physical forms within the Lands Between and instead influence the events of the Lands Between in other ways, including through worship by denizens of the Lands Between and by powering incantations.
The Outer Gods are responsible for many of the events that happen both before and during Elden Ring's story, and have acted in both benevolent and malicious ways.
Confirmed Outer Gods
This is a list of Outer Gods whose status is confirmed explicitly by in-game descriptions.
The Formless Mother
An Outer God also known as the "Mother of Truth" who craves wounds. The Formless Mother is associated most closely with Mohg, Lord of Blood, giving him and his followers access to Blood Incantations. When Mohg stood before her, deep underground, his accursed blood erupted with fire. Mohg's attempts to elevate Miquella to Godhood imply that the Formless Mother possesses the ability to uplift someone to the status of God.
Reference to the Formless Mother being an Outer God can be found in the description of Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear.
The Sealed God of Scarlet Rot
An Outer God associated with the corrupting Scarlet Rot. Little is explicitly said about this God's nature or intentions but Gowry, who proclaims himself dedicated to the "Order of Rot", likens said order to "the cycle of decay and rebirth".
According to the Blue Dancer Charm, this Outer God was reportedly sealed away by a blind swordsman with a flowing sword, and the Lake of Rot Map confirms that the lake of rot is the location of this sealing. The Prosthesis-Wearer Heirloom implies that this same swordsman goes on to mentor Malenia, who is similarly afflicted with rot. While the connection is never made explicit, Malenia's elevation to the Goddess of Rot maintains a pattern of people being uplifted to the status of God while also being associated with a higher being or Outer God, such as Miquella under the Formless Mother and Marika under the Greater Will.
Reference to the God of Rot being an Outer God can be found in the descriptions of the Lake of Rot Map and the Scorpion's Stinger.
Unnamed God of the Twinbird
An Outer God related in some fashion to death. All that is stated about this Outer God is that the Twinbird is its vassal, and that the Twinbird is in turn the mother of Deathbirds.
Ghostflame sorceries such as Ancient Death Rancor and Explosive Ghostflame are explicitly related to deathbirds. As these are death sorceries which are boosted by the Prince of Death's Staff, it may be reasonable to infer that the Deathbirds, and therefore their God, are similar in nature to Those Who Live in Death. This idea is strengthened by a ghostflame weapon, the Helphen's Steeple, is dropped by a Tibia Mariner. According to the Steeple, there is a place known as the Helphen which may be associated with this Outer God.
The Deathbirds and their God may be opposed to Destined Death due to the fact that Mausoleum Knights, who according to their shields wish to ward off destined death, adorn their armor with wings to evoke the Deathbirds.
Reference to the God of the Twinbird being an Outer God can be found in the Twinbird Kite Shield.
The Frenzied Flame
The Frenzied Flame is either an Outer God itself or a manifestation of an Outer God's influence. At the end of Hyetta's questline, she is able to speak to us on behalf of the Frenzied Flame's Three Fingers. It outlines its beliefs that the Greater Will's act of "fracturing" the "One Great" into life as we know it was a mistake, and is the source of all suffering. Its intentions are to burn the world, "until all is One again".
This Outer God is associated with the various Frenzied Flame Incantations and can be sided with, culminating in the "Lord of Frenzied Flame" ending.
The Frenzied Flame is never specifically referenced as an Outer God, but is subdued using Miquella's Needle which states its specific function is to "ward away the meddling of Outer Gods". It may be argued that the Flame is the "meddling" and not the Outer God itself, but this does seem to confirm that there is an Outer God involved.
Celestial Entities
There are several beings that are never stated to be Gods nor Outer Gods, but are confirmed to come from beyond the Lands Between and appear to possess power and the intent to exert influence upon the world, which may form the basis for an argument for them being Outer Gods.
The Greater Will
The entity with the most influence in the current age of the Lands Between, yet an entity that is perhaps surprisingly never referred to as an Outer God.
According to Elden Stars, the Greater Will sent the Elden Beast down to the Lands Between, which later manifests as the Elden Ring. The Ring appears to require a native vessel in the Lands Between similar to how confirmed Outer Gods have taken to associating with vessels and servants. The vessel of the Elden Ring is considered a God, and the God's consort takes the title of Elden Lord. Assuming Elden Lord means "consort to the vessel of the Elden Ring" then we know of two Gods under the Greater Will: Marika and Placidusax's fled God.
The Greater Will appears to communicate via the Two Fingers, creatures that can allegedly contact the entity and relay its message to Finger Readers who then pass this message to the people of the Lands Between. The message that the Fingers deliver is one of Order, although the Greater Will does not appear to be strict about the manner in which Order is achieved, as we see multiple different Orders across the various ages, and the player has the option between 4 variations across the various "Elden Lord" endings. However, Gideon and Varre both allude to the fingers having been affected in some way, such that their message may be out of touch with the Greater Will's intent.
The Full/Dark Moon
The two moons that we know of in Elden Ring could be argued to behave similarly enough to Outer Gods to be classified as such. This is especially so because the Full/Dark Moon is literally said to have wisdom, can bewitch and is feared by Ranni and the Snow Crone based on the Glintstone Icecrag spell. As one needs to be sentient to be said to have wisdom, the Full/Dark Moon could be an otherworldly entity similar to outer gods.
Both also have a terrestrial representative similar to Outer Gods - Rennala for the Full Moon and Ranni for the Dark Moon - and both seem to have a power that exceed their peers, the stars. Rennala is able to use her discovery of the Full Moon to bewitch the academy of Raya Lucaria and become the head of the institution, while Ranni's Dark Moon would appear instrumental in expelling even the Greater Will's influence from the Lands Between and ushering in the "age of stars" ending.
There is no text referring to either moon as a god nor an Outer God, so it remains speculative as to whether or not they are.
The Blood Star
An enigmatic entity associated with Aberrant Sorceries. Briars of Punishment says the Blood Star was said to have been discovered by "the guilty" amidst darkness, after their eyes were gouged out by thorns. Some players have speculated the Blood Star to be the influence of the Formless Mother due to the joint association with Blood, although the lack of arcane scaling across aberrant items coupled with the aberrants having no association with Mohg's dynasty or bloodflame somewhat negates this idea.
The nature of the Blood Star is ultimately up to speculation.
Gods of Unconfirmed Status
These gods have not been confirmed to be Outer Gods, but are at the very least known as gods and have an unclear origin that can be used to argue that they are Outer Gods.
The Fell God
A god worshiped by the Fire Giants, associated with Fire Giant and Fire Monk Incantations. The Fell God, according to the One-Eyed Shield, was rumored to have been slain by Queen Marika but is confirmed to still lurk within the Fire Giants themselves according to the Flame of the Fell God.
Some players argue that it may be an Outer God in virtue of its relative strength and lacking its own body, although the concept of Marika engaging it in combat may serve as an argument for it being a similar kind of god to her.
Unnamed Ancient Dragon God
A god associated with Dragonlord Placidusax during his time as Elden Lord in an age before the Erdtree. This God is said to have fled, although the reason for this and the consequences of it are not elaborated on.
Some players argue that Placidusax's title of "Elden Lord" logically entails that he was a Lord under the Greater Will - as every other Elden Lord we know is - and the God that fled was his spouse and vessel of the Elden Ring. Other players argue that Placidusax may be Elden Lord by some other merit, and that the God in question is the Outer God he serves under rather than the Greater Will.
Serpent God
The giant snake which devoured Rykard, this god is theorized to be an Outer God on the basis that it is allegedly undying and possesses the ability to devour gods.
Other players argue that the serpent does not possess the typical traits and MO of an Outer God, such as no clear physical form and reliance on vassal entities.
Speculated Outer Gods
Some entities, while never referred to as Outer Gods, gods, or even implied to be in some way "outer", draw speculation from players as to whether they may fall under the label regardless
The Gloam-eyed Queen
The Gloam-eyed Queen is a figure that appears across various item descriptions and remains shrouded in mystery as to where she is now. Despite Black Flame Ritual confirming her status as an Empyrean, which are usually demigods chosen by the Greater Will, theories of her being an Outer God, among many other things, are popular among players. It is possible that the Gloam-eyed Queen is Melina. During the frenzy flamed ending, Melina's sealed eye is opened (it is opened after the player activates the rune of destined death, further implying her connection to it) and she vows to hunt down the Lord of Frenzied Flame and slay them with destined death. This tells us that she has a connection to destined death. Melina also shares a similarity with Lunar Princess Ranni. One of Ranni's eyes are sealed with the same looking mark that seals Melina's eye. Ranni is already a confirmed Empyrean so if Melina is related to Ranni then that means that she is a Demi-God at the least. It is also implied that her mother was Queen Marika stating that she was born on the foot of the Erdtree but was badly burned and forgot her purpose.
The Primeval Current
The Primeval Current is an esoteric and mysterious force in Elden Ring that is elaborated on little by the game beyond a connection to magic, glintstone and stars. Its vague nature make the Current ripe for speculation about what it could be, and some of these speculations have included that it may be an Outer God.
AnonymousWhere does this put the Tarnished, or specifically the players Tarnished?
It seems the level of godhood is defined by how much influence a certain entity has over not only the Lands Between but the universe within Elden Ring and I’d argue that the players Tarnished has the most influence of the happenings within this universe. Obviously so far it is just a circumstance of the games story but I’d personally love to see the Tarnished ascend to something beyond the sphere of the universe, almost like exiting the game and being able to look back in.
- Anonymous
I find it ridiculous that people would argue that the Greater Will is not an outer god just because it is not literally referred to as such. We know that the Greater Will sent the Elden Beast into the Lands Between and the Fingers can communicate with it. This shows that the Greater Will is a sentient entity who is capable of action and communication. These traits are sufficient to show that the Greater Will is an outer god who influences the Lands Between. What’s the Greater Will if it’s not an outer god? A piece of space rock?
Which brings me to the Full/Dark Moon. It is literally said to have wisdom, can bewitch people and is feared by Ranni and the Snow Crone. Someone who has wisdom must be capable of thought and reasoning, else it wouldn’t have wisdom. Hence, the Moon must be a sentient entity capable of thought (has wisdom) and can take actions (bewitch), just like the Greater Will. So, even though the Moon is not literally referred to as an outer god, it likely is because it is sentient and can take actions to influence the Lands Between.
The Frenzied Flame came from the One Great. We know that the One Great split into the Greater Will and the Frenzied Flame, and the Frenzied Flame has a will of its own - it wants everything to be burned so that all becomes “one” again. So clearly the Frenzies Flame is sentient and has a goal to achieve. A sentient being with the power to influence the Lands Between qualifies as an outer god. Besides, Miquella’s Needle is said to ward off outer gods, so the Frenzied Flame must be an outer god (or at least the extension of an outer god) since it is suppressed by Miquella’s Needle.
- Anonymous
- Anonymous
The Age of Stars brought back the God and night sky to the eternal cities, while leaving the world behind without meddling in the competition for power, playing Marika's game. Anyone who says Age of Stars isn't the best ending, look at the stats. It has an impact on people for a reason.
If you dont pay attention in FromSoftware games, you end up missing pieces of the story that tie it all together.
For example, the cut dialogue from a mimic tear NPC who asks you to become a Lord for the eternal cities, where they have been banished to by Marika and her will. They had never known a true night sky and even tried to mimic dragons (ie. Dragonkin Soldier) to give themselves an immortal lord.
- Anonymous
Age of stars = teens thinking with their *ick. The stars are malevolent entities like Astel and Grave Mass, but fanboys claim that Age of Stars is good ending. Laughable
- Anonymous
I'm thinking the Shadow Realm is gonna be the dumping ground for all the Gods and/or their forces that were defeated by Marika/Godfrey, sort of like how in Dark Souls everything unwanted or deemed a threat to the current establishment was exiled into the painted world.
This might be why Messmer is dripping with various iconography relating to ancient blasphemies - he's taken their power as trophies or is perhaps in league with them.
- Anonymous
I believe the gloam eyed queen is the empyrean of the twinbird. And messmer is the empyrean of the fell god.
- Anonymous
betting 10 bucks that the gloam eyed queen is the final boss of the dlc
- Anonymous
At first, i think "Elden Lord" was the title that Greater Will stole from Dragon lord and later give it to the consort of Elden Ring's vessel. But this seems to be very stoopid, because how could he know what title Placidusax was called in the age before Age of Erdtree ? and why does he even care ? If he wants, he could just create a new of his own instead of stealing.
This would lead me to a theory that Greater Will and the God that dragons once worshipped are actually the same. The God of dragons is only said to have fled away without any reason. I like to think the Age of Dragons that Greater Will established in the past was just an experiment. Because after separating himself from Frenzied Flame, his power was limited, unstable, incomplete and definitely not ready to have any colony at that time, he is simply not powerful enough. So he used dragons as his test subjects and threw them away when he did not need them anymore and left. The next time he returned taking a new identity as "Greater Will", the entire Lands Between was put under his control.
- Anonymous
The Moon is said to have wisdom, can bewitch and is feared based on the Glintstone Icecrag spell. If it is just space rock, why would it have wisdom, can bewitch and is feared? Someone who has wisdom and can bewitch is obviously a conscious entity similar to outer gods even though it is not explicitly stated as so.
- Anonymous
So the entire plot is like real life? Listening to hands and arguing over who has the most powerful imaginary friend? (JK I know that they have physical embodiments and have powers beyond mortal comprehension, because if an Outer God used its true power, I'm speculating that it could change time itself, maybe Placiddy's God had that ability, considering that Farum Azula should've taken THOUSANDS of years to break apart, and Placidusax's Arena had to 'rewind' in a sort. Imagine this. The Dragons were the original hosts, and since Lansseax shared their power, maybe the Outer Gods had a change of heart? Idk, speculation. Still readin'? Good. It gets juicy now. Maybe if Lansseax didn't commune, the Outers could've stayed, since Gransax is the most powerful of them all, he could've been the true incarnate. (STILL SPECULATION) Fortissax could have been the host of Destined Death, as goodest doggo Maliketh is, since Lich pretty much means corpse. Idk really, but still, the Dragons might have been hosts in a time immemorial.) Thanks for takin' the time to read!
- Kingslayer
- Anonymous
I really feel like celestial entities (if you can even call them that) like moons shouldn’t even be on this page. They aren’t really related to gods and don’t interact with the world in a similar way that the outer gods do. Honestly it’s pure speculation that they are tangible enough beings to even have motives in the first place. The whole “dark moon is an outer god” is one of the most often regurgitated pieces of speculation stated as fact that I see, and I feel pages like this one are to blame for that.
- Anonymous
I’ve never once seen it mentioned by anybody so maybe I’m forgetting something explicitly contradictory. But I always like to interpret the Great Will as an organization of outer gods. They all agree that they want order, but they all have different and changing ideas about how that order should be ordered.
So they make a gold star that will incarnate their idea of “order”, and then send it to the world. The Elden beast/Elden ring. And then over the ages they bicker about which order is the best, how reality should fundamentally work, and their vassals make all different runes and imbed them into the ring to redefine the order of reality, or remove them changing it.
Marika did after all send the tarnish off to become strong, and then the greater will called them all back, and each one we meet plays import rules in shaping the next order of reality, several making up new runes that affect the ending. Most of the population just doesn’t really understand the greater will, and is indoctrinated to think the golden order is perfect and what things should be
The frenzied flame is just one of the outer gods who doesn’t buy into that, they saw the reality and heard all the misery, and think that “order” is oppressive and cruel and seeks to remove it. Revert reality and saving everybody from existing.
Two questions— is the ‘One Great’ as referenced by Hyetta not the Greater Will? I think I see a lot of people saying that (which initially makes sense bcs I think the next line references the Greater Will) but she’s the only one I think who refers to it as such, so could it be a different outer god or some sort entity? Like that one is more attached to life, but the Greater Will is the one that attaches “will/order” and that is where the mistake lies more so. But I’m probably way off and that’s not enough info. But I always thought it curious since the wording has always jabbed at me. I guess I should check the Japanese and check on wording there. Is this a thought with others or disproven?
Also. Wasn’t there a third character that also mentioned distrust in the fingers/them being out of touch or broken? I can’t seem to find that info and I could be wrong.
- Anonymous
The Black Moon is a third moon, different than Ranni's Dark Moon and Rennala's Full Moon. This was a moon over the Eternal City of Noskella. I'm convinced this was destroyed by Marika during the Crucible Era, as she was still working with Godfrey to establish her Golden Order. Though some items mention the "twin Eternal Cities" Nokron and Noskella, there's a third in the Deeproot Depths - the Nameless Eternal City. But what's directly above the ruins of that city is the crater within the northwest walls of Leyndell, making Leyndell the third Eternal City - prior to all three of them sinking underground. Wouldn't it then align with the theme of Marika's campaign prior to her reign, as she eliminated her rivals throughout the entire Lands Between, that the Nox too were defeated and subjugated by her, their moon (and fates) shattered?
As for the Primeval Current, a lot of the wording reveals what it is. Why would Sellen try to "restore" it? Why are Lusat and Azur described as staring into the abyss when they glimpsed it? "Final moments of a great star cluster" (see Stars of Ruin)? What if the Primeval Current was actually the fate of the death of the universe? Radahn, in "holding back the stars", stopped fate's progress. The metaphor of fate "flowing" seems important here. Wouldn't the primeval (primordial) current (flow) - the original flow of the stars - lead to their death? Sellen may very well be attempting to "restore the fate" of a new Big Bang, essentially, which does explain why she's aboslutely loathed by her peers.
- Anonymous
One thing to point out is many of the Outer Gods embody aspects of nature that Marika's Golden Order subverted or suppressed. Disease/Rot and death itself would have been suppressed by the Erdtree's healing and rebirth properties. The Formless Mother seems to be a being embodying pain, which would be suppressed by the GO. Even the God Devouring Serpent seems to just be the embodiment of a volcano (Magma "consumes" thing after all hence the Taker's flame). The only exception to this would be the Frenzied Flame God, which seems more like a counterpart of the GW itself, being the Chaos to the GW's Order.
- Anonymous
This may not be a super interesting observation but the two and three fingers make up a hand. The two fingers are an index and ring finger while the three are a thumb, pointer finger, and pinky. They seem to fit together and that makes me feel like the frenzied flame and the greater will are two halves of some even greater being. The frenzied flame representing chaos and the greater will representing order.
- Anonymous
I like to think The formless Mother and The Great One Oedon (bloodborne) are the same being.
- Anonymous
Crazy theory: The Gloam-Eyed Queen is Ranni. While she's younger than the godskins, it never unambiguously states that she led them for the whole time they existed, and it would make sense that they were promised (either mistakenly or as a lie) to get their powers restored during the deathmark heist. Also, the Gloam-Eyed Queen is an empyrean and Ranni claims that only herself, Malenia, and Miquella (both of whom are even less plausible candidates) were Empyreans. Granted, Ranni could be mistaken or lying or the Gloam-Eyed Queen could have been a non-demigod Empyrean if such things existed, but I do think her being the queen is plausible.
- Anonymous
I wouldn't be surprised if Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen, I mean look at her appearance in the frenzied flame ending. her hair turns black, her now open left eye resembles the beast eye gurranq/Maliketh gives you which trembles near death, her right eye becomes a gloam looking white colour that looks exactly like the godskins outfits and she says to bring the lord of chaos "destined death". she may not be an outer god, but the Gloom eyed queen is a confirmed empyrean and Melina gives you multiple hints toward being Marika's daughter.
- Anonymous
I interpret the primeval current to be the milky way, or at least some galaxy visible in the sky
- Anonymous
The Full Moon/Dark Moon is instrumental in banishign the influence of the gods, so I think it’s far more likely that like the stars it’s the thing that guided fate before the holy power of the gods supplanted it
- Anonymous
this game is cosmic horror disguised as fantasy and i love it
- Anonymous
I might be barking up the wrong tree here, but it seems to me that rather than Melina being the Gloam-Eyed Queen, she could be the child of Marika and the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Stranger things have happened! Godwyn let Fortissax live, after all. Maybe Marika let her live, and because they're strange gods who can do strange things like meld into one, maybe it's possible she had child with her.
- Anonymous
Eclipse Crest Greatshield: "The eclipsed sun, drained of color, is the protective star of soulless demigods. It aids the mausoleum knights by keeping Destined Death at bay." I think there is evidence to suggest that the eclipsed sun is itself an Outer God, or vassal of one? I think there is an extrapolation that can be made to even suggest that an Outer God is using Godwyn's corpse as a vassal; not unlike Malenia. This could possibly give credence to the eclipsed sun being an Outer God since we know Miquella attempted to return Godwyn's soul to his body during the eclipse as Castle Sol.
- Anonymous
I think that the Elden Beast is the embodiment of the greater will. Therefore, the God itself. Can you see how other gods are scheming against it? Bringing it's demise, with different endings. In the end, I think that the outer gods were originally there, they united against it. Dragons, giants and all. I think the principal antagonists there, are the outer-space gods linked to the stars and sorceries, and the greater will. Unwanted.
- Anonymous
Wouldn't the Dragon Lord just be the Elden Beast's consort? It makes sense that it is missing if it got stuck in a tree. Elden Beast hosts the elden ring, is considered a God under the Greater Will, and looks kinda dragon like. I could see how they would be partners.
- Anonymous
Unrelated but why does deicide come up so much in popular Japanese media like Souls and MegaTen? Is this the normal attitude in Asian mythology or something?
- Anonymous
I think the Greater Will is not referred to as an Outer God because "Outer God" refers to otherworldly godlike beings that are not the Greater Will. The GW is the current "Capital-G" God of the Lands Between and is of the same/similar origin as the other Outer Gods but because the other ones are not the current God in charge they are designated as "Outer."
Say a continuation of the game is made that takes place thousands of years after the Frenzy Flame ending. In that story, the Frenzy Flame would just be the Frenzy Flame, and the Greater Will, if mentioned, would be referred to as just "an ancient god" or otherwise an Outer God that was defeated by the Tarnished/Frenzy Flame.
- Anonymous
Something I just realized recently about the outer gods is that they're all underground in some way.
-The Three Fingers are deep in the shunning grounds.
-The Formless Mother's dynasty is underground, and it first contacted Mohg in the shunning grounds (source: Bloodboon).
-The Lake of Rot is underground.
-Ghostflame (which is associated with Deathbirds) was found by the Fallen Hawks underground (source: Ghostflame Torch)
- Anonymous
Queen Marika is NOT the Gloam-Eyed Queen. According to the Godslayer Greatsword, the Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated by Maliketh. As we know, Maliketh is Marika’s gaurd dog for the Rune of Death. I believe that Gloam-Eyed queen was a different entity, trying to get the Rune of Death so that she and her godskin fellows could go on a murder spree and kill all the gods. Just a theory not proven but I don’t think that people saying Marika=Gloam-Eyed Queen checked every lore source related to the two (or 3 since Maliketh also plays a factor).
- Anonymous
I think It's more likely that the god-devouring serpent is the vassal of some unknown outer god, the same way that the elden beast is a vassal of the greater will, than it actually being an outer god itself.
- Anonymous
The outer god of Placidusaxis not an outer god. In Japanese, the kanji used in the description of the remembrance is the same as that used to refer to Marika. Placidusax was waiting for whoever was vessel of the ring at that time
- Anonymous
The Formless Mother, basically a big Bloodborne reference.
She is basically Oedon, being formless and bound to blood. She also set blood ablaze.
- Anonymous
The eclipsed sun should be on here, it says it protects soulless demigods and aids mosoleum knights with keeping destined death at bay
- Anonymous
Note to future editors: this page is about outer gods. Some of you seem to have a weird need to tell Malenia's entire life story within the confines of the Rot God's section. Stop it. Only talk about things in reference to the subject of the section.
- Anonymous
I do not believe the Dark Moon is the only moon in the Lands Between: there is evidence that the Full and Dark moons are both different entities, and both can be seen at the same time on the Moonlight Plateu. The Black Moon seems to be a different entity as well, and is likely destroyed or shattered. They do, however, seem to share the goal of bringing about the Age of Stars, though perhaps not in the same way as evidenced by the death of Ranni’s servants by the Black Knives (and possibly the Godskins, if the black flames on Iji are any conclusive evidence.)
- Anonymous
If the moons are tied to outer gods what of the sun? There's gear depicting it, talking about it, and that of the city crowned by it. Castle sol and the faded sword of a distant age the skeleton warriors who wear tattered armament with sols Insignia. Most god like entity's are talked about to some degree. Even the dragon god still has city remenants i wonder if the dragons destroyed the age of sol very fitting in a from software game.
- Anonymous
Almost everything in the game points to the Greater Will and its Golden Order having an inherent flaw or contradiction, so it stands to reason that it's associated 'inner god', Marika/Radagon, would also possess that contradiction. Maybe Radagon embodies the Greater Will itself and Marika embodies that contradiction, as everything she has done seems to work against her own position and rule. This might answer the commonly asked question as to why the Greater Will chose Marika/Radagon as an 'inner god': it in fact chose Radagon, but Marika represented its own flawed nature, being one and the same.
I'm definitely of the opinion that Marika was formerly the gloam-eyed queen, due to their shared connections with Melina, and so it seems she was infamous as a godslayer before her ascendance to godhood. It also seems as though she planned the Night of Black Knives, and as such it can be assumed she has consistently been motivated by a desire to kill gods (also justified by her interactions with Hewg).
All of the demigods, with the exception of Morgott (who refers to his siblings as 'wilful traitors'), appear to be actively working against the Golden Order and Marika/Radagon. Although the demigods are said to be the children of Radagon, in conversation with Melina, Marika refers to them as her "beloved children". I see Marika's motivation as just the destruction of the Golden Order, and perhaps the varied objectives of her children represent the possible worlds to come after the Golden Order is destroyed.
In conclusion, I see Marika and Radagon as representing the fundamentally 'broken' nature of the Greater Will, inhabiting the same body but actively working against each other. I think this casts an interesting light on Godfrey and the Tarnished, who definitely appear to be linked with Marika in particular. The way I see it, they both represent servants of a contradictory dogma, expected to both destroy and uphold the Golden Order, which makes no real sense. This might explain why the Greater Will both encourages and seemingly opposes the destruction of the Erdtree, its centre, and it might explain why committing a 'cardinal sin' in burning it is necessary.
Next time you play through Elden Ring, try looking at it from the perspective that the Tarnished's ambition is inherently self-contradictory.
P.S. I see Godfrey as being loyal to both Marika and Radagon, fitting as he is the first Tarnished, the former Lord of Marika/Radagon expelled on her command. He himself is a contradictory and two-sided character, both being a respected lord and a savage barbarian.
- Anonymous
- Anonymous
So according to lore, if you were to fight a demigod after unleashing the rune of death, and we're to use the black flame against them, it would outright kill them like it used too. Unfortunately not the case lol
I die a little more inside every time I visit this page and see someone's vandalized it with takes ranging from unfounded speculation to direct misinformation
- Anonymous
changed unnamed god of blackbirds to destined death. I mean, its quite ****ing apparent, marika took it from gloam eyed and it posseses literally everyone that has it
- Anonymous
I personally think the lands between are just a landmass between two much larger landmasses. Kind of like in Hunter X Hunter where the entire dark continent surrounds the land the hunters live on. I mean clearly you have Asian inspired armor and weapons as per usual from far off lands. But Marika literally banished Godfrey the tarnished from the Lands between. So they had to go somewhere. And when you think of it like that, the golden order doesn’t even control the entire planet.
- Anonymous
Those outer gods are seemingly extremely distant, yet the concept they embody are very earth centric, so much that several gods are disputing the same world, a new one always replacing the other.
It makes me wonder why and how they came to be, as they seemingly weren't competing all at the same time. If there are that many, very specific outer gods already, could we have a situation akin to warhammer, where beliefs or life situations could spawn gods out of nowhere .
- Anonymous
Eiglay has the power of an outer god because it(Eiglay) is immortal
- Anonymous
Hope the DLC explores more of these concepts and allows you to hunt them down.
- Anonymous
Hope the DLC explores more of these concepts and allows you to hunt them down.
How can a god of Rot or wounds exist without life how can the Frenzied God exist as opposition to the greater will but come before? I think the greater will was either the first thing after the crucible and simply stole power from it to create life and other gods later popped out or that it was omnipotent and kept taking parts of itself to create things
- Anonymous
Lore connection I just made.
It is said in the Mausoleum Knight Ash description, they follow their Master Demigods into Death by severing their heads. This suggests that rather than just Ranni's Corpse and Godwyn, an additional Seven Demigods lived and died, due to seven wandering mausoleums existing. But Radagon and Marika had the Demigods we know and fight or serve, and never mention any others. Additionally, Rykard's Serpent is said to be a God that devours other Gods, the forbidden creature of Mt. Gelmir. But it doesn't really count as a God-Devouring Serpent if the only God known to be consumed is a Demigod who willingly fed himself to it...
I believe that there were other Gods similar to Radagon and Marika, as many times in the game it mentions multiple Gods. Realistically, they would've hidden, died during the shattering, or more accurately, get devoured by Rykard. Overall, my theory is that many other Gods did exist, and that Rykard consumed them while their dead spawn, the Demigods, are the ones in the Mausoleum. And realistically, since only Radagon and Marika were really that prominent in the Golden Order, the other Gods were off doing something else, and for that reason nobody remembers/mentions them, or they were deemed heretics by the Golden Order that they were not apart of.
The blood star is probably the formless mother because of how everything we know about them seems connected and the outergod of the dragons is probably just the greater will because they had a version of the eldenring which is the elden beast or the vassal of the greater will
- Anonymous
Isn't the "outer god" referenced in the lake of rot's description Astel? It's literally sealed underneath the area, and it came from outer space.
- Anonymous
I noticed that many of the Outer Gods seem to be associated with a specific type of fire - obviously the Frenzied-Flame is the Frenzied-Flame, then there's the Bloodflame of the Formless Mother, the Giantsflame of the Fell God, and the Ghostflame of the Deathbird's deity. So I wondered if perhaps *every* Outer God had some sort of flame associated with them, and I think with a bit of digging we can find matches for them!
The Greater Will's "Goldflame" is seen used by the Elden Beast with its "breath" attack (and a few other moves) and perhaps in Placidusax's Ruin. It is otherwise paranoidly guarded, with merely its light being allowed use in its incantations. This aligns with the Greater Will's controlling nature that we see with the Golden Order - it carefully protects its own flame while striving to quash the flames of the other gods.
The God of Scarlet Rot doesn't have any fire-based incantations, but given that it is "sealed" I think that it would make sense for its flame to be the dullest. Some have pointed out the similarities between the Scarlet Aeonia and tree rust diseases, and rusting is the same chemical process as burning (oxidation), just too slow to produce fire! Thus we see no obvious flame, but the Scarlet Rot still gradually burns like all the other flames. Perhaps an unsealed Rot god would deliver "Scarletflame" incantations?
I find it unlikely that the Dark Moon is an Outer God, or associated with one, thus why the glintstone sorceries don't require Faith. Ranni seems to desire freedom from divine rule, so I think it would be odd for her to just drop fealty to one god to accept another. Like ancestral spirits (which also utilize Intelligence, re: infant's skull), I believe the Primeval Current is a natural phenomenon unrelated to any god. If you think it is related to a god and want to make a bit of a stretch, perhaps stars (being balls of fire, after all) are it's form of flame.
The sorceries that do require Faith are the Aberrant, Magma, and Death sorceries. Aberrant spells may relate to the Formless Mother, or whatever deity is associated with the "blood star", but the "guilty" practitioners of them certainly appear to have some relation to fire. Magma sorceries draw on some ancient power of Gelmir, which may relate to an unknown forgotten god or perhaps even the Fell God. Death spells clearly relate to the Deathbirds, which have their own Outer God and Ghostflame, as mentioned above.
The Dragon Cult seems to worship the dragons themselves, not an Outer God, and I see no evidence that the dragons were/are involved with any Outer God besides the Greater Will. Faith is required for these incantations because they are similarly channeling the power of another, rather than manipulating a natural force, but have no flame associated with them because the dragons aren't Outer Gods. If you want to make a reach for a dragon Outer God, perhaps lightning is their form of flame.
Black Flame fits into this as not being the divine flame of any Outer God, but a sort of anti-flame. It's said to have weight (like Humanity in Dark Souls), its protection spell confers physical defense, it can slay the gods, and it's oddly written as two words - all unique traits amongst the known flames. It seems distinct from Ghostflame, which is cold and looks a bit different, but perhaps it was adapted from that divine flame. Seemingly the Greater Will utilized the power of Black Flame in the creation of the Rune of Death as well as with the Godskin Apostles, but doesn't seem to have much direct control of it, thus the need for Maliketh to eventually subdue it along with the Apostles, and Ranni's ability to steal its power. Therefore I don't believe it's the divine flame of the Greater Will either, but rather a rogue element of sorts.
Anyway, hope this was at least somewhat intriguing! Would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this theme/theory!
- Anonymous
- Anonymous
Personally I think the dragon god is unlikely an outer god. The rememberence describes said dragon as an elden lord which makes me think that he also was a consort to a god similar in status to Marika.
- Anonymous
That was an interesting read. I've been wondering about the description of the 'great-stars' for a while, it says "a blood-stained star is an ill omen, a fact not lost upon those against whom this weapon is brought to bear" now all I need is someone who knows the lore to tell me who the weapon was used on.
- Anonymous
If you take the words of the 'three fingers' at face value that 'all' cae from the one great then it could be that this doesn't just mean the world, but everything including the outer gods. The next thng mentioned is 'fracture' this doesn't have to just mean the current state of the world and the shattering of the elden ring, but the fracturing of the one greater will into different aspects of itself.
There are concepts which seem to connect the outer gods somewhat inexplicaply together for example:
- thorns are connected with the blood-star as well as death and the erdtree
- the rose church is home to bloodroses as well as scarlet rot with the lake of rot beneath it
- the thorn sorcerers discovered the bloodglintstone in the mountains the thorns are also connected to the flame monk gaurding the flame of ruin
- the flame of ruin is located in a giant couldron (or crudible) and connected to forging AKA the act of creation the erdree's primorial form is a crudible from which life was created
- finally almost every power semingly opposing current the golden order exept the flame of frenzy (the flame of ruin, the flame of destined death, the dragons lightning, the bloodflame, the serpents) the is connected to the color red which is mentioned to also be the color of 'primorial gold'
Now if we were to assume that the sending of the elden beast and following creation of the elden ring as well as the establishing of the golden order was a response to said shattering, it would shine a light on a few key aspects of elden rings story:
- there is the third eternal city directly below lyndell and the erdtree roots it is nameless and destroyed which possibly means that other than nokron and nokstella it became delapitaded after being sunk as a consequence of the erdree growing over it. It is also located at the riverhead of ainsel an sifora making it quite possibly the capital of the eternal city which where all sunk after invoking the ire of the greater will, quite possibly because of creating the god slaying weapon.
- Said weapon is quite possibly the black flame which is the flame of destined deaths true form, the game makes an interesting point in destinguishing between the ghostflame and the flame of destined death the first is not considered fire in itself and is cold while the second is 'fire' which sets it in line with the other flames capable of harming the erdtree. The gloam eyed queen therefore would have been their original queen.
- another important destinction seems to be between 'god' and 'outer god' a god possibly beeing a vessel for an outer god i.e. an aspect of the 'one great' AKA the "original" greater will for example the 'one-eyed-god' is mentioned as an (evil) god who seemingly inherited the flame of ruin and enslaved the fire giants with it who are said to alread be cursed to tend to the flame before the war since dying 'freed them from said curse. The 'one-eyed-god' is said to already have been killed by marika while the flame of ruin (essence of an outer god) could only be sealed like the scaret rot
- Futhermore the concept of duality often repeats itself throught the texts from the 'two-fingers' with the two laws of the golden order to the twin bird the 'envoy' of yet another outer god. The seemingly manevolent destructive forces could thus in actuality be harboring much more essential aspects of the one which get supressed because of their opposition to the golden order. For example the scarlet rot seems to also represent rebirth (scorpion tarlismans, scarlet aeonia, poison armament), while the flame of ruin seems to seems to be tied to creation.
- The current great will is what remains of the original "one" after fracturing into the outer gods it is the concept of order on one side stability however on the other also stagnation as its opposite exists the flame of frenzy the concept of chaos and the regret over its own fracture in consequence of creation. It manifests as a sort of mokery of its counterpart with the three fingers and a yellow (golden) flame with red rim and seeminly black outline
- the flame of frenzy possible manifested only around the golden orders creation with the three fingers and the two fingers original being five fingers, which is the symbol of wisdom as stated by 'cinquedea' (whose name consists of "five" and "godess". The fingers themselves looking like thumb, index and litlle finger (three fingers) as well as middle and ringfinger (two fingers) respectively
- Full and Dark moon are the symbols of nokron and nokstella respectively the third moon the black moon then seems to be the one of the nameless eternal city beneath lyndell. the moon most likely was destroyed to create the black flame "destined death". The Darkmoon on the other hand seems to be connected to ghostflame given both their connection to magic and frost aswell as blue black colorsceme
- The moons guide the stars and the stars represent fate, thus it seems likely that the moons are indeed tied to the states of life and death quite possibly the very representations of those states themselves (full -> life, black -> death, dark -> afterlife) and thus the outer god(s) of the twin bird
Now as to the identity of the queen there are a few hints that it could possibly be the later queen marika:
- The gloam-eyed queen was the original wielder of the black flame and leader of the godskin apostles and wielded the 'god-slaying sword' which was the source of said flame until she was defeated by maliketh marikas shadow whos only purpose was to contain said flame
- The gloam-eyed queen was an empyrean choosen by the fingers however there are two things important to note: First it is only stated 'fingers' not 'two fingers' which might be intersting as to the existance of originally more than two, second as seen with ranni being choosen an empyrean seems to be entirely without consent of the individual
- Marika herself is stated to have slain the one-eyed-god a feat which would seem quite fitting for a declare god-slayer
- It could be possible that marika like ranni sought to escape her fate as a vessel for the greater will explaing the existance of the 'fingerslayer blade' and it being the proof of the high treason of the eternal city the blade came from a corpse, now if you look closely it actually looks like a withered 'relic greatsword'. This could mean it stems from the former vassal of the greater will most likely the fell god of the dragonlord.
Now together this could mean something like this:
-> The Numen come to the lands between and establish the eternal cities
-> Queen marika is born and chosen an empyrean
-> Marika rejects her fate and tries to rebel creating the black flame and the godskin apostels
-> She goes on a crusade against the gods ultimately felling the god of dragons
-> This creates the fingerslayer blade
-> The fingers send Maliketh to deal with Marika and force her to accept her fate Maliketh defeats Marika
-> The greater Will sends the Elden Beast sinking the eternal cities
-> Marika is bound by the Elden Ring forcing her to do the Great will's will
Also to note would be:
- Melina's mother seems to be Marika she herself seems to have an affinity for destined death she could indeed be Marikas soul which escaped her bound body and seeks to free herself from her fate
- The Nox could be the name the remaining Numen in the eternal cities took after their sinking
- The Apostles also seem to have ties to the god-devouring serpent (The are encountered at the vulcano mansion, the noble has a serpentine tail, the apostle is capabe of extending its torso like the man-serpents) so another possible identity of the gloam-eyed queen could be the serpent. However it could also mean that the serpent was created as a consequence of the god hunt, zoyaras talisman does suggest the sepents orginal name was deadicar after all.
- Anonymous
Really tired of people trying to connect Dark Souls and Elden Ring when the worlds are functionally entirely different, like ffs space isn't even a thing in Dark Souls and most of the supposed "celestial bodies" are just manifestations of the power of the gods of Lordran and the Age of Fire, and everything in the world of Dark Souls can be traced back to the planet that the games take place on, if Dark Souls even takes place on a planet as we understand it (which in all likelihood it doesn't). If Elden Ring is connected to anything, it's Bloodborne but even then there is a lot of outright contradictory lore in terms of the connections that it's more likely it's just both taking influence from Lovecraftian Horror and ER calling back to Bloodborne.
But crack theory anyways Ranni is the moon presence well after the Age of Stars Ending, no I will not be elaborating.
- Anonymous
Something to consider modifying regarding the Full Moon, the Dark Moon, and the Black Moon. It is implied here on the wiki that they are all the same entity, and while it is possible that they are all connected in some way, and is likely the case, they are absolutely distinct entities from each other. The Dark Moon can be proven to be different from the Full Moon by traveling to the Moonlight Altar at night and observing both of these moons being present in the night sky, the Dark Moon being slightly obscured by the Erdtree. The Black Moon is said to have been destroyed, since the the Memory Stones are supposed to be fragments of it. It's not a big deal on its face to say these are all the same thing, since it's very likely they are all closely related, but it's just kind of a nitpick I guess.
- Anonymous
A thing to consider is the golden order subsuming the other powers in order to continue persisting. Rogier mentions it having been once more maleable...
In light of this it would be intersesting to consider the folowing:
1. The frenzied Flame is the "Subsumed" form of the flame ruin however since the conept of ruin (as in all things coming to an end) is anathemic to the very concept of the golden order which is supposed to be eternal it can not be propery integrated into the order and is thus left festering at its roots, embodying the orders hostility towards itself. Here are a few observations counting toward that:
-- The flame of frenzy is located directly under the capital - the center of the golden order
-- The three fingers are a perversion of the golden orders two fingers implying by their numerical nature to be their sucessor (like counting to three)
-- The order has two rules causality and regression with the flame possibly adding a third one mot likly about termination which would be the logical conclusion
-- Every outbreak of frenzy occures in the direct vicinity of a minor erdtree
-- The flames yellow apearance could be a mix of the flames of ruins red and the golden orders gold
2. The gloam-eyed queen was queen marika as an empyrean. While the fact that the queen of the godskin apostles was defeated by maliketh (notice 'defeated' which doesn't mean killed) seems to contradict this, if we consider the role of an empyreans shadow as a "watchdog" (hehe) ensuring his masters safety AND obedience her defeat could have come after trying to go against the fingers will with her former powers being subsequently being sealed away. Here are few points to consider:
-- Based on the asperation of the order to be absolute a 'godslayer' as an empyrean would make sense concidering that influence in the lands between seems to be quite contested i.e. while other "inner" gods are mentioned none seem to be around even by the time of godfrey who "only" fights their delegates
-- The flame of 'destined death' has a golden hue meaning it could be a combination of the original death as well as the golden orders powers. However while using it on other orders seems to be in line with the golden orders tenets, it also stands in contradiction to it should death be used on the order itself so it was sealed away
-- The night of the black knifes was seemingly commited by female 'numen' which where close to marika, who supposedly was once on of them, the godskin apostes are seeminly not human so it is possible they are numen as well, futhermore Dominula the village where you fight one of them has a ritual involving skining as well as specially clad maidens as the main executers of said ritual
-- The godlayers sword does sort of resemble the sacret relic sword
-- godwyn being the prince of death would obtain futher meaning by him not only being the the first dead demigod, but also being the firstborn of the "death queen" herself. Additionally melina promising 'destined death' to the lord of the frenzied flame does make a lot more sense with her being the 'daughter' of marika. Even more so if we assume that her closed eye similar to rennis means she is also a soul out of her body (which according to herself she lost) making her not just a 'daughter' of marika, but marika herself who escaped her imprisoned self to aid in weakening the greater will's grip on the lands between.
3. In combination of the previous points her are a few more possible conclusions:
-- Radagon is a being born of the orders domination over the flame of ruin - explaining his red hair as well as he and marika being two seperate beings as well as one and the same. Marika 'cursed' the last giant to forever tend to the flame, however the giant already where cursed too do that, so the giants curse seems to be part of the fact that the flame can't be extinguished. Radagon also seems to yearn to be whole which seems to hint at his being paradoxical in nature
-- Malenias fate of harbouring rot could be another version of this she is a being of the golden order affected by the power of another god
-- Erdree itself seems too be an adaption of the budding horns of the ancestor spirit, the omens having horns being a consequence of that (or rather a continuation of an existing phenomenom which was then shunned ot as being foreign to the order)
-- Bloodflame could be an attempt to adapt the powers of the bloodstar into the golden order
4. As a broader notion the whole shattering seems to be an attempt to mend the the schisms in the golden order with the various elden lord endings for example trying to fix them to various effects like:
-- reintroducing death - most likely of the soul as they formerly always 'returned' to the erdtree with the possible result that the cycle grew stale since this only allowes exist souls to be reborn instead of new souls emerging from the ashes of the dead and the after effect that souls which weren't allowed to return to the erdtree continued to life within death
-- just buring the erdtree witout changing aything which creates a new cycle similar to the old one and with the looming threat of just repeating the same mistake over and over again
-- doubling down on the order itself by removing any ambition to further the order in any way in hope of smothering every problem in dogma
-- doubleing down on the curses in hope that by making the curse the order the oder becomes stable
-- the other two seperate endings abandoning the order alltogether by either introducing a new one with a more hands-off aproach and the compononent of the unknown or burning existance itself in a sort of "if the golden order doesn't work nothing will aproach"
-- the game itself refleacting that with you yourself being without 'true' guidance and thus left to reconstruct the world without any clear indicator of what the right way would be
- Anonymous
What if the formless mother is not an outer god, but th frenzied flames consort? Mog interacts with it directly, which is a new presceedent amongst the outer gods. And if this thing is the new dynasty's equivalent to Marika, then a lot of the duality in the lore gets kinda evened out
- Anonymous
I don't know why this isn't talked about more, however if you've done the Frenzy ending (spoilers obviously) Melina shows up with a radically different appearance, bearing one purple eye while the other is foggy, and she threatens to deliver Destined Death to the player.
I think YouTuber Ratatoskr was the first one to point that out, but that's very likely that Melina is an alias for the Gloam Eyed Queen. There's probably holes in the theory but I think it's very believable and fun.
- Anonymous
The reason why the One-eyed god of the Giants isn't part of any ending is quite understandable since the game specifically states that Queen Marika killed it. So it's no longer around to be a part of anything other than the awesome lore of this game.
- Anonymous
There’s a lot more that connect the blood star and the formless mother when you take bloodroses into account. They symbolize both the formless mother and the thorn sorceries. Mohgs OST is one of the few with clear Latin and the first two words are “Sun, Blood”. And while there is a distinction between the formless mothers Bloodflame and the fire giants fell flame I’d note they are almost working together. And the burning of the erdtree is a cardinal sin. The Elden Beast is a vassal for the greater will and is stated as a golden star that fell to the lands between, and if you look at the Cinquedea you can see the dragons and beastmen where lords of the five finger and greater will when it was once a whole hand and not two and three fingers. Hence why it takes on a dragon like form, similar to the twin birds and the deathbirds. And I’d argue the twin bird is certainly the gloam eyed queens formal vassal. With as stated all the dies to black flame and death, and then the bird claw like tattoo over Melina’s Gloamed eye the symbolism just to strong. Once could argue the Fingerslaying blade could potentially be once her corpse and was used by the twin bird itself as a sacred relic sword. And the killing of her would have been enough to grow the ire of the greater will if she was the chosen queen before Marika
- Anonymous
ppl need to stop simping for ranni, yes the dark moon is most certinly an outer god
from what we can see in the game the outer god enfources their will and spread their influnce through an empyrean who becomes a vassal fo them case in point melania bearing the scarlet rot of the rot god and marika bearing the eldan ring of the greater will, this would mean to become a god one must be become a vassal for an outer god you can NEVER be a god without the direct connection with an outer god now we can also confirm that you need to be chosen as an empyrean (we don;t know what qualaties you must have to be one) to be a vassle for an outer god even mhog despite his connection with the formless mother couldn't become a god and sattled for being a lord and maquila being the god
which brings me to my second point ANYONE can be a lord literally anyone so long as they are the spouse of the empyrean thus they become dami gods and so is their children
- Anonymous
Elden ring is probably one of my favorite games but I got no problem saying there’s a lot of useless bs they could EASILY replace wit content leaning towards all this awesome lore. Would love detailed explanation on difference between black flame and destined death, and how deathblight (specifically eclipse shotel death flame) and ghost flame tie in to that
- Anonymous
Why do people keep assuming the Greater Will is malicious? There's no evidence of that in the game, only that the Golden Order is oppressive. But the Order is a manmade thing. Or Numenmade thing or whatever. It was Marika that plucked Destined Death from the Elden Ring, after all.
- Anonymous
I reckon melina is associated with the dusk eyed queen. I reckon marika had some big plot to sabotage the golden order, making radagon fall in with Renalla. Sending off the tarnished and having them return when needed. Shattering the elden ring. She probably had melina act as the kindling and as a fail-safe incase someone allied with the frenzied flame. Since the only way she'd survive is if someone used the frenzy to burn the tree. Maybe marika somehow gave her the power of the dusk eyed queen, who of course was the one that would kill gods. Locked the power unless needed as shown by the 3 fingers tattoo over melinas eye. when the frenzied flame ending happens, her normal eye is dusky while her tattoo is greyed out and her other eye is open, allowing her to use the God killing power to kill the lord of frenzy. This lore is super deep I love it
- Anonymous
- Anonymous
So can the God of Rot really do anything with Malenia and her kin dead? It seems like they were its main method of spreading its influence.
- Anonymous
It’s important to remember that the term “God” also is used to refer to beings like Marika, who isn’t an outer god herself but a vessel for it. Because it mentioned that he was an Elden Lord, I assumed that the god Placidusax served was akin Marika before her reign, and it’s possible the one eyed god is the same, not an Outer God but a god-like vessel
- Anonymous
The one eyed god is confirmed. In some items descriptions there are things like: Tricksome shield made from white stone depicting a malformed one-eyed god. The barrel of a firearm pokes through the open mouth.
Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika.
(One eyed shield)
- Anonymous
Ghostflame was used to burn the dead before the Erdtree, but it seemingly doesn’t destroy the soul. Most necromantic sorceries describe calling forth spirits to attack. Perhaps the oldest form of magic was harnessing people’s souls?
- Anonymous
I don't like how they implied scarlet rot as simply being the power of a sealed outer god beneath the Lake of Rot. I had a much more interesting theory.
In the lore, the Haligtree was planted by the demigods to potentially replace the waning Erdtree, and to speed up the process they watered it with the blood of Miquella, the cursed infant demigod with (seemingly) perpetually flowing blood.
I figured that, since the godly Erdtree is the source of all life in the Lands Between and all souls return to it upon death, then the Haligtree's artificial creation by mere demigods and being hastily watered with the cursed blood of an infant in perpetual slumber narratively made sense as the origin of the twisted lifeforms known as scarlet rot. It's honestly a pretty expected trope in fiction, and exists elsewhere in the game too (Albinaurics being created by man). Scarlet rot being the result of the failed attempt to "play god" was perfectly set up to the point of feeling intentional, and then contradicted with a very generic explanation.
- Anonymous
I don't like how they implied scarlet rot as simply being the power of a sealed outer god beneath the Lake of Rot. I had a much more interesting theory.
In the lore, the Haligtree was planted by the demigods to potentially replace the waning Erdtree, and to speed up the process they watered it with the blood of Miquella, the cursed infant demigod with (seemingly) perpetually flowing blood.
I figured that, since the godly Erdtree is the source of all life in the Lands Between and all souls return to it upon death, then the Haligtree's artificial creation by mere demigods and being hastily watered with the cursed blood of an infant in perpetual slumber narratively made sense as the origin of the twisted lifeforms known as scarlet rot. It's honestly a pretty expected trope in fiction, and exists elsewhere in the game too (Albinaurics being created by man). Scarlet rot being the result of the failed attempt to "play god" was perfectly set up to the point of feeling intentional, and then contradicted with a very generic explanation.
- Anonymous
Greater Will
Frenzied Flame
The Fell God (likely)
The Dragon God
Formless Mother/Blood God
God of Scarlet Rot/God of Rot
The Full Moon/Dark Moon
Lord of Night
Death Bird God/Mother of Death Birds/Twinbird
- Anonymous
I think it's rather interesting that Ranni killed a 3 fingers, when from what I understand, the one that approached her was a 2 fingers. Thoughts?
- Anonymous
wait Why does the Greater will hasnt been fully comfirmed yet?
- Anonymous
Honestly, all that theorizing around Blackflame and the Godskins should not take such centre stage when discussing the Deathbird God. Due to the abilities of its servitors such as Ghostflame and all its uses and quirks. (such as the fact that it may act as a lamplight that can guide souls in the afterlife, or that it seems to be the very basis for channelling necromantic magic). Also the gods the possible connections to Godwyn, due to him seemingly being the Lord of the Undead.
- Anonymous
Lot of people are conflicted about Moon & Stars being outer gods . We can not really confirm this but what is true is that they are powerful and have influence over lands between (like how earth's moon affect the tides but with sorceries) . At least some of the stars are sentient and space is far from being lifeless. Astel is a malformed star and fallingstar beasts , Elden beast are from space . Alabaster lords, onyx lords , Fallingstar beast and Astel al use gravity one way or another . Moon & stars have power enough to threaten greater will hold on lands between . Are they sentient ? May be , Are they an outer god ? Also May be .
- Anonymous
Honestly, all that theorizing around Blackflame and the Godskins should not take such centre stage when discussing the Deathbird God. Due to the abilities of its servitors such as Ghostflame and all its uses and quirks. (such as the fact that it may act as a lamplight that can guide souls in the afterlife, or that it seems to be the very basis for channelling necromantic magic). Also the gods the possible connections to Godwyn, due to him seemingly being the Lord of the Undead.
- Anonymous
Honestly, all that theorizing around Blackflame and the Godskins should not take such centre stage when discussing the Deathbird God. Due to the abilities of his servitors, Ghostflame and all its uses and quirks. (such as the fact that its lamplight can guide souls in the afterlife, or that it seems the very basis for channelling necromantic magic). An the gods the possible connections to Godwyn, due to his state as Lord of the Undead.
- Anonymous
The sorcery you get from the Deathbird in Consecrated Snow Field states that before the Erdtree, dead bodies were burned away with Ghostflame. Feel like this is worth mentioning.
- Anonymous
I get the feeling that the Ancient God of Dragons and the Greater Will may actually be in league with one another, and that the war with the Erdtree and the dragons was merely a war fought for territory between the dragons and the Golden Order rather than one demanded by their outer gods. The reason why I believe this to be the case is because Lansseax was able to convince the Golden Order that her kind and their kind could coexist, and even managed to get them to allow her to establish the Dragon Cult and the Dragon Communion churches, and many of the Erdtree soldiers use lightning, something that the dragons are known for using as well. On top of that, but the Elden Beast vaguely looks like that of a dragon, which makes me think that the Greater Will was partly inspired/influenced by the Ancient God of Dragons to create it in the vague image of the ancient dragons.
- Anonymous
Simps still arguing that having wisdom does not make an entity sentient. It’s amazing watching them trying to twist plain words to justify their fan fiction that the Moon is just a piece of space rock. The Moon is a star and we know that the stars are actually sentient beings who control fates.
- Anonymous
Why is the "Dark Moon, the Stars and the Primeval Current" in the "known outer gods" section. There's no evidence for them being outer gods, so shouldn't it be in the "possible outer gods" section? Or even just give it its own page.
(Actually, the Greater Will isn't ever directly called an outer god either, so it could also be moved to the "possible" section.)
- Anonymous
Quite a few of the outer gods seems to have/had their own champions who was intended to used to control the Elden Ring
Greater will - Marika/Radagon
Formeless Mother - Mohg
Scarlet rot outer God - Malenia
Moon & Stars - Ranni
Outer god of dragons - Dragonlord Placidusax
We know very little about these three to confirm anything - Fell god of giants , Outer god of deathbirds and Blood star . They likely lost their influence or were never had influence enough to acquire powerful campions .
I did not mention Frenzied flame because no one except Shabriri is psycho enough to kill all life willingly.
- Anonymous
“The Dark Moon, also known as the Full Moon”
Except not really
It’s a full moon yes
But not the same one as is referred to as the “full moon” in various other places
You can see both in the moonlight altar area
- Anonymous
Gee I wonder what the one eyed giant god has in common with the person who used goantsflame to burn the erdtree…
“No related ending”, indeed
- Anonymous
- Anonymous
- Anonymous
The Dark Moon is a star and stars control the fates. Anyone who believes that Ranni grants free will is a tool. Firstly, the stars do not grant free will as they control the fates; and secondly, Ranni is subject to the Dark Moon’s will. This is pretty much spelt out in the Glintstone Icecrag Spell stating that Ranni was taught to fear the Moon.
- Anonymous
So this planet is filled with a bunch of eldritch super beings buried just underneath the surface. What a bad place to live.
- Anonymous
- Anonymous
It is possible that the Outer god worshiped by the dragons gave them their signature wepons: lightning. It could be observed that all lesser, mordern dragons have no lightning abilities, while most of the ancient dragons could use lightning in some capacity. This might be true, or I am reading too much.
Do any of these endings actually buff the players spells in anyway? That would be intense. Depending on the ending you choose, is like splitting off into a hybrid class section LOL would be neat.
Do any of these endings actually buff the players spells in anyway? That would be intense. Depending on the ending you choose, is like splitting off into a hybrid class section LOL would be neat.
- Anonymous
Is the name of the death god literally Destined Death?
Just an idea.
That‘s some shitty sealing they‘ve done on the god of rot when half the continent has rabies.
In more seriousness, what did sealing the outer god of rot actually do? It is evidently still able to influence the land and the fate an empyrean, who ascends to godess mid fight (hence reaching the same status that Marika has with respect to the greater will)
5
+11
-1