The Outer Gods are mysterious beings mentioned throughout the lore of Elden Ring. They do not appear to manifest physical forms within the Lands Between and instead influence the events of the Lands Between in other ways, including through worship by denizens of the Lands Between and by powering incantations.

The Outer Gods are responsible for many of the events that happen both before and during Elden Ring's story, and have acted in both benevolent and malicious ways. 

List of Known Outer Gods


The Frenzied Flame

The Frenzied Flame is an Outer God who wants to end all life. According to the Frenzied Flame, life itself is the source of suffering and those who were born to suffer wish that they were never born.  However, the Frenzied Flame viewed the Greater Will as having made a mistake when life was created. For this reason, the Frenzied Flame wants to undo all life and return everything to the "One Great" (most likely a metaphor for the singularity of all matter).

This Outer God is associated with the Three Fingers and the Frenzied Flame Incantations. The Frenzied Flame can be subdued with Miquella's Needle before the player fully transforms into the Lord of Frenzied Flame.

This Outer God is mostly involved in the "Lord of Frenzied Flame" ending. 

The Formless Mother

An Outer God also known as the "mother of truth" who craves wounds. The Formless Mother employs Mohg as her primary vassal and is associated with Blood Incantations. When Mohg, Lord of Blood stood before her, deep underground, his accursed blood erupted with fire. Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear is an instrument of communion with this outer god.

The Sealed God of Scarlet Rot

An Outer God associated with the corrupting Scarlet Rot,  that has now been sealed away under the Lake of Rot. The location's provided map description states "It is said that the divine essence of an outer god is sealed away in this land." The Scorpion's Stinger is crafted from a relic of this Outer God. The Mushroom Crown was supposedly worn by lords that served the scarlet rot, and the Mushroom Set served as "holy vestments that root one to the earth". 

This Outer God was (according to legend) sealed away by a blind swordsman with a flowing sword. According to the Blue Dancer Charm, "The dancer in blue represents a fairy, who in legend bestowed a flowing sword upon a blind swordsman. Blade in hand, the swordsman sealed away an ancient god—a god that was Rot itself." The handle of the Flowing Curved Sword resembles both the handle of the Nox Flowing Sword wielded by Nox Swordstresses and the handle of the dagger wielded by Night Maidens; this could mean that the Flowing Curved Sword was made by the Nox. A swordsman wielding the flowing blade also trained a rotting girl, presumably Malenia (Prosthesis-Wearer Heirloom)

When Malenia was born, she was harbored scarlet rot from within, as a result of being born from one god (Remembrance of the Rot Goddess). Malenia was worshipped as a goddess by the followers of rot, such as Maleigh Marais (Antspur Rapier). Malenia's brother Miquella worked to treat her scarlet rot. This resulted in him abandoning Golden Order fundamentalism and creating unalloyed gold (Radagon's Rings of Light). Unalloyed gold creations include the Unalloyed Gold Needle and Miquella's Needle, which ward away the meddling of the Outer Gods. 

When Malenia "blooms", her scarlet rot advances (Scarlet Aeonia) and she will become a goddess with the third bloom. One of these blooms happened in a battle against Starscourge Radahn, which created the Swamp of Aeonia, left Caelid filled with rot and sent Radahn into an unending fit of madness. Pests emerged from the swamp (Pest's Glaive), and Millicent and her sisters were also born in the swamp (Rotten Winged Sword Insignia). Sage Gowry dedicated himself to restoring the "Order of Rot", and planned for Millicent to bloom into a "scarlet valkyrie". 

Gowry, the Pests and Malenia are associated with this god.

Rileigh the Idle might be a worshipper of Rot as well, since his Black-Key Bolts inflict Scarlet Rot buildup, and he wields a Scorpion's Stinger as his sidearm. If so, it is possible he is related to Maleigh Marais, considering the similarity between their names, and the tendency of families in Elden Ring to have similar-sounding names.


Possible Outer Gods

These gods have not been confirmed to be Outer Gods, but are associated with powers equivalent to that of the Outer Gods.


The Greater Will

The entity with the most influence in the current iteration of the Lands Between, and the creator of the Elden Beast, which later manifests the Elden Ring. Its main goal appears to be to maintain order within the Lands Between, although it appears to accomplish this by harvesting the life-essence of the dead of the Lands Between through the roots of the Erdtree. This entity uses the Two Fingers as vassals and is primarily associated with Erdtree, Golden Order, and Two Fingers Incantations. Although the Greater Will seems to be an outer god, and has similarities with known outer gods, such as the Two Fingers being similar to the Frenzied Flame's Three Fingers, it is never directly stated to be an outer god in the game. 


This Outer God is mostly involved in the "Elden Lord" and "Age of Order" endings. (Although Corhyn comes to believe Goldmask was a madman who sought to betray the Golden Order, it is unclear this is actually correct. Corhyn frequently expresses confusion at Goldmask's wisdom and disbelief at, for instance, the revelation that Marika and Radagon are elements of the same whole, implying that he is unable to truly understand the nature of the Order or the forces that drive it. While Goldmask does seek to alter the Golden Order, the Mending Rune of Perfect Order indicates this is in order to make it more stable, a goal seemingly aligned with what we know of the Greater Will.)

The Dark Moon, the Stars and the Primeval Current

The Dark Moon, also known as the Full Moon and the Black Moon of Nokstella, might be an entity who has wisdom, and can bewitch and is feared by Ranni and the Snow Crone based on the Glintstone Icecrag spell. As one needs to be sentient to be said to have wisdom, the Dark Moon is likely an entity with its own consciousness and therefore might be similar to the outer gods. 

The ancient people of the Eternal City venerated the Dark Moon. The Dark Moon was also likely involved in the coming or the creation of a Lord of Night based on the Night Maiden Armor and the Mimic Tear Ashes. The Dark Moon is said to be "the guide of countless stars" based on the Moon of Nokstella item, and may be one of the key entities through which the primeval current of the void was channeled to the ancient astrologers and sorcerers of the Eternal Cities. 

The primeval sorcerers were known to create "graven mass" - an abomination made of the heads of sorcerers amalgamated with glintstone - in order to transform into a seed that will become a "star". A graven mass appears to possess a collective consciousness and is star-like in appearance when viewed from afar. The reason the primeval sorcerers want to become part of the Stars is obvious, as the Stars are said to command the fates of the people and even gods based on the Amber Starlight. This control over the fates was removed from the Stars with the advent of the Greater Will and the Golden Order.

The Stars are said to have "residual life" based on Sellen. Therefore, the art of glintstone sorcery is essentially the art of using the life force contained within the Stars to power sorceries. Indeed, the Stars harbor sentient life such as Astel and the Fallingstar Beast. 

The Primeval Current is the life-bearing energy that flows through the stars and the abyss. This energy can harbor new life like Astel (a "natural-born"). In addition, this energy can be harnessed to transform a human sorcerer into a glintstone being (like what Azur and Lusat eventually become), or to ascend a group of human sorcerers into a graven mass to become, if successful, a new star with a collective consciousness.

This power is involved in the "Age of Stars" ending.

The One-Eyed God of Fire

A god worshiped by the Fire Giants, granting them extremely powerful fire magic. It is associated with Fire Giant and Fire Monk Incantations. While there is a possibility that this god is the same as the Frenzied Flame, it is unlikely as the fire magic used by the Fire Giants and followers of the Frenzied Flame are different colors, and while Melina is happy to use the power of the Giant's Flame to burn the Erdtree, she turns against the player if the Frenzied Flame is embraced. However, this means the Giant's god is not associated with one of the current endings.

It is also potentially significant that the visual motif found in the eye of the fire giant (one inner eye surrounded by eight smaller circles) is found in several other places in the Lands Between including on Godrick the Grafted's crown and on the crenellations at the top of the divine towers.

The Blood Star

An enigmatic entity associated with Aberrant Sorceries, said to have been discovered by "the guilty" amidst eternal darkness, after their eyes were gouged out by thorns (described in Briars of Punishment). It is associated with red glintstone, which was said to have been discovered by those exiled to the north for their crimes. Mad Tongue Alberich wears a set of clothing that boosts the effects of its sorceries. The Blood Star is also associated with human sacrifices, as red glintstone is said to have been formed by their blood (Alberich's Set; Staff of the Guilty). Aberrant sorcery and the use of red glintstone is said to be a practice reviled at the academy, as it employs faith as well as intelligence (Briars of Sin).  Thorn Sorcerers, practitioners of aberrant sorcery, wield Staffs of the Guilty, and often accompany Fire Monks.and red glintstone is employed by the blasphemous practitioners of Mt Gelmir, who employ it in their own Magma Sorceries (Gelmir Glintstone Staff). The Staff of the Guilty also resembles the large wooden stakes used to kill the Fire Giants. Briars of Sin are also mentioned in the item description of the Shield of the Guilty, where it is said they crushed the eyes of a maiden, before she was "reborn in these lands." The Shield of the Guilty inflicts Hemorrhage when bashed against an opponent.

It is possible that this is another title for the Formless Mother, given shared themes of self-injury and sacrifice; however, Mohg's Sanguine Nobles do not appear to employ red glintstone or the tools necessary to create it, and their desire for luxury, power and love is at odds with the maddened, self-flagellating attitude of the Thorn Sorcerers. Also, despite the close relationship between flame and aberrant sorcery, users of red glintstone do not appear to employ bloodflame, though some Thorn Sorcerers (the ones wielding a staff that is fully ablaze instead of merely smoldering) can grow thorns out the end of their Staff of the Guilty and ignite it as they swipe it at the player.

Finally, it is entirely possible that the Blood Star, as well as the various Moons, is not an entity, but merely a source of power from which Sorceries can draw from.

Unnamed God of the Deathbirds

An Outer God related to the Deathbirds, and possibly embodying Destined Death itself. The description for the Twinbird Kite Shield says the "twinbird is said to be the envoy of an outer god." It is possibly associated with the Black Flame, the Godskin (including the Godskin Apostle Incantations), and a figure known as the "Gloam" or "Dusk" eyed queen who ruled the Godskin before being "defeated" by Maliketh.

Several considerations point to Death being associated with an Outer God's power in some capacity: The Black Knife and Maliketh's Black Blade deal holy damage, and Black Blade is an Erdtree Incantation and deals holy damage, as do the Godslayer Incantaions. However, it is somewhat unclear whether death is an independent Outer God; an aspect of the Greater Will; or some different kind of power. The Death Sorceries and their references to the Death Birds suggests there is a sidereal dimension to death as well. Unlike the Magma Sorceries, which were brought back into practical use as new forms of sorcery by Rykard after discovering the ancient hexes of Gelmir, and are conceptually different than the power of the Giant's Flame incantations, the Death Sorceries are described as being the way death was handled in the Lands Between prior to the Erdtree and, presumably, the Golden Order. It may be that Death is simply a type of power (or rite) manifested by whatever regime is currently dominating the Lands Between.

Unnamed Ancient God of Dragons

A god worshiped by Dragonlord Placidusax during his time as Elden Lord in an age before the Erdtree. Associated with Dragon Cult and Dragon Communion Incantations. It is unclear whether Placidusax was an Elden Lord in the same sense as, say, Godfrey, i.e., as a demigod embodying the power of a separate outer god or whether it merely indicates that the primal power of the dragons was equivalent to that of an Outer God while they reigned.

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    • Anonymous

      Those outer gods are seemingly extremely distant, yet the concept they embody are very earth centric, so much that several gods are disputing the same world, a new one always replacing the other.

      It makes me wonder why and how they came to be, as they seemingly weren't competing all at the same time. If there are that many, very specific outer gods already, could we have a situation akin to warhammer, where beliefs or life situations could spawn gods out of nowhere .

      • How can a god of Rot or wounds exist without life how can the Frenzied God exist as opposition to the greater will but come before? I think the greater will was either the first thing after the crucible and simply stole power from it to create life and other gods later popped out or that it was omnipotent and kept taking parts of itself to create things

        • Anonymous

          Lore connection I just made.

          It is said in the Mausoleum Knight Ash description, they follow their Master Demigods into Death by severing their heads. This suggests that rather than just Ranni's Corpse and Godwyn, an additional Seven Demigods lived and died, due to seven wandering mausoleums existing. But Radagon and Marika had the Demigods we know and fight or serve, and never mention any others. Additionally, Rykard's Serpent is said to be a God that devours other Gods, the forbidden creature of Mt. Gelmir. But it doesn't really count as a God-Devouring Serpent if the only God known to be consumed is a Demigod who willingly fed himself to it...

          I believe that there were other Gods similar to Radagon and Marika, as many times in the game it mentions multiple Gods. Realistically, they would've hidden, died during the shattering, or more accurately, get devoured by Rykard. Overall, my theory is that many other Gods did exist, and that Rykard consumed them while their dead spawn, the Demigods, are the ones in the Mausoleum. And realistically, since only Radagon and Marika were really that prominent in the Golden Order, the other Gods were off doing something else, and for that reason nobody remembers/mentions them, or they were deemed heretics by the Golden Order that they were not apart of.

          • The blood star is probably the formless mother because of how everything we know about them seems connected and the outergod of the dragons is probably just the greater will because they had a version of the eldenring which is the elden beast or the vassal of the greater will

            • Anonymous

              Isn't the "outer god" referenced in the lake of rot's description Astel? It's literally sealed underneath the area, and it came from outer space.

              • Anonymous

                I noticed that many of the Outer Gods seem to be associated with a specific type of fire - obviously the Frenzied-Flame is the Frenzied-Flame, then there's the Bloodflame of the Formless Mother, the Giantsflame of the Fell God, and the Ghostflame of the Deathbird's deity. So I wondered if perhaps *every* Outer God had some sort of flame associated with them, and I think with a bit of digging we can find matches for them!

                The Greater Will's "Goldflame" is seen used by the Elden Beast with its "breath" attack (and a few other moves) and perhaps in Placidusax's Ruin. It is otherwise paranoidly guarded, with merely its light being allowed use in its incantations. This aligns with the Greater Will's controlling nature that we see with the Golden Order - it carefully protects its own flame while striving to quash the flames of the other gods.

                The God of Scarlet Rot doesn't have any fire-based incantations, but given that it is "sealed" I think that it would make sense for its flame to be the dullest. Some have pointed out the similarities between the Scarlet Aeonia and tree rust diseases, and rusting is the same chemical process as burning (oxidation), just too slow to produce fire! Thus we see no obvious flame, but the Scarlet Rot still gradually burns like all the other flames. Perhaps an unsealed Rot god would deliver "Scarletflame" incantations?

                I find it unlikely that the Dark Moon is an Outer God, or associated with one, thus why the glintstone sorceries don't require Faith. Ranni seems to desire freedom from divine rule, so I think it would be odd for her to just drop fealty to one god to accept another. Like ancestral spirits (which also utilize Intelligence, re: infant's skull), I believe the Primeval Current is a natural phenomenon unrelated to any god. If you think it is related to a god and want to make a bit of a stretch, perhaps stars (being balls of fire, after all) are it's form of flame.

                The sorceries that do require Faith are the Aberrant, Magma, and Death sorceries. Aberrant spells may relate to the Formless Mother, or whatever deity is associated with the "blood star", but the "guilty" practitioners of them certainly appear to have some relation to fire. Magma sorceries draw on some ancient power of Gelmir, which may relate to an unknown forgotten god or perhaps even the Fell God. Death spells clearly relate to the Deathbirds, which have their own Outer God and Ghostflame, as mentioned above.

                The Dragon Cult seems to worship the dragons themselves, not an Outer God, and I see no evidence that the dragons were/are involved with any Outer God besides the Greater Will. Faith is required for these incantations because they are similarly channeling the power of another, rather than manipulating a natural force, but have no flame associated with them because the dragons aren't Outer Gods. If you want to make a reach for a dragon Outer God, perhaps lightning is their form of flame.

                Black Flame fits into this as not being the divine flame of any Outer God, but a sort of anti-flame. It's said to have weight (like Humanity in Dark Souls), its protection spell confers physical defense, it can slay the gods, and it's oddly written as two words - all unique traits amongst the known flames. It seems distinct from Ghostflame, which is cold and looks a bit different, but perhaps it was adapted from that divine flame. Seemingly the Greater Will utilized the power of Black Flame in the creation of the Rune of Death as well as with the Godskin Apostles, but doesn't seem to have much direct control of it, thus the need for Maliketh to eventually subdue it along with the Apostles, and Ranni's ability to steal its power. Therefore I don't believe it's the divine flame of the Greater Will either, but rather a rogue element of sorts.

                Anyway, hope this was at least somewhat intriguing! Would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this theme/theory!

                • Anonymous

                  Personally I think the dragon god is unlikely an outer god. The rememberence describes said dragon as an elden lord which makes me think that he also was a consort to a god similar in status to Marika.

                  • Anonymous

                    That was an interesting read. I've been wondering about the description of the 'great-stars' for a while, it says "a blood-stained star is an ill omen, a fact not lost upon those against whom this weapon is brought to bear" now all I need is someone who knows the lore to tell me who the weapon was used on.

                    • Anonymous

                      If you take the words of the 'three fingers' at face value that 'all' cae from the one great then it could be that this doesn't just mean the world, but everything including the outer gods. The next thng mentioned is 'fracture' this doesn't have to just mean the current state of the world and the shattering of the elden ring, but the fracturing of the one greater will into different aspects of itself.

                      There are concepts which seem to connect the outer gods somewhat inexplicaply together for example:

                      - thorns are connected with the blood-star as well as death and the erdtree

                      - the rose church is home to bloodroses as well as scarlet rot with the lake of rot beneath it

                      - the thorn sorcerers discovered the bloodglintstone in the mountains the thorns are also connected to the flame monk gaurding the flame of ruin

                      - the flame of ruin is located in a giant couldron (or crudible) and connected to forging AKA the act of creation the erdree's primorial form is a crudible from which life was created

                      - finally almost every power semingly opposing current the golden order exept the flame of frenzy (the flame of ruin, the flame of destined death, the dragons lightning, the bloodflame, the serpents) the is connected to the color red which is mentioned to also be the color of 'primorial gold'

                      Now if we were to assume that the sending of the elden beast and following creation of the elden ring as well as the establishing of the golden order was a response to said shattering, it would shine a light on a few key aspects of elden rings story:

                      - there is the third eternal city directly below lyndell and the erdtree roots it is nameless and destroyed which possibly means that other than nokron and nokstella it became delapitaded after being sunk as a consequence of the erdree growing over it. It is also located at the riverhead of ainsel an sifora making it quite possibly the capital of the eternal city which where all sunk after invoking the ire of the greater will, quite possibly because of creating the god slaying weapon.

                      - Said weapon is quite possibly the black flame which is the flame of destined deaths true form, the game makes an interesting point in destinguishing between the ghostflame and the flame of destined death the first is not considered fire in itself and is cold while the second is 'fire' which sets it in line with the other flames capable of harming the erdtree. The gloam eyed queen therefore would have been their original queen.

                      - another important destinction seems to be between 'god' and 'outer god' a god possibly beeing a vessel for an outer god i.e. an aspect of the 'one great' AKA the "original" greater will for example the 'one-eyed-god' is mentioned as an (evil) god who seemingly inherited the flame of ruin and enslaved the fire giants with it who are said to alread be cursed to tend to the flame before the war since dying 'freed them from said curse. The 'one-eyed-god' is said to already have been killed by marika while the flame of ruin (essence of an outer god) could only be sealed like the scaret rot

                      - Futhermore the concept of duality often repeats itself throught the texts from the 'two-fingers' with the two laws of the golden order to the twin bird the 'envoy' of yet another outer god. The seemingly manevolent destructive forces could thus in actuality be harboring much more essential aspects of the one which get supressed because of their opposition to the golden order. For example the scarlet rot seems to also represent rebirth (scorpion tarlismans, scarlet aeonia, poison armament), while the flame of ruin seems to seems to be tied to creation.

                      - The current great will is what remains of the original "one" after fracturing into the outer gods it is the concept of order on one side stability however on the other also stagnation as its opposite exists the flame of frenzy the concept of chaos and the regret over its own fracture in consequence of creation. It manifests as a sort of mokery of its counterpart with the three fingers and a yellow (golden) flame with red rim and seeminly black outline
                      - the flame of frenzy possible manifested only around the golden orders creation with the three fingers and the two fingers original being five fingers, which is the symbol of wisdom as stated by 'cinquedea' (whose name consists of "five" and "godess". The fingers themselves looking like thumb, index and litlle finger (three fingers) as well as middle and ringfinger (two fingers) respectively

                      - Full and Dark moon are the symbols of nokron and nokstella respectively the third moon the black moon then seems to be the one of the nameless eternal city beneath lyndell. the moon most likely was destroyed to create the black flame "destined death". The Darkmoon on the other hand seems to be connected to ghostflame given both their connection to magic and frost aswell as blue black colorsceme

                      - The moons guide the stars and the stars represent fate, thus it seems likely that the moons are indeed tied to the states of life and death quite possibly the very representations of those states themselves (full -> life, black -> death, dark -> afterlife) and thus the outer god(s) of the twin bird

                      Now as to the identity of the queen there are a few hints that it could possibly be the later queen marika:

                      - The gloam-eyed queen was the original wielder of the black flame and leader of the godskin apostles and wielded the 'god-slaying sword' which was the source of said flame until she was defeated by maliketh marikas shadow whos only purpose was to contain said flame

                      - The gloam-eyed queen was an empyrean choosen by the fingers however there are two things important to note: First it is only stated 'fingers' not 'two fingers' which might be intersting as to the existance of originally more than two, second as seen with ranni being choosen an empyrean seems to be entirely without consent of the individual

                      - Marika herself is stated to have slain the one-eyed-god a feat which would seem quite fitting for a declare god-slayer

                      - It could be possible that marika like ranni sought to escape her fate as a vessel for the greater will explaing the existance of the 'fingerslayer blade' and it being the proof of the high treason of the eternal city the blade came from a corpse, now if you look closely it actually looks like a withered 'relic greatsword'. This could mean it stems from the former vassal of the greater will most likely the fell god of the dragonlord.

                      Now together this could mean something like this:

                      -> The Numen come to the lands between and establish the eternal cities

                      -> Queen marika is born and chosen an empyrean

                      -> Marika rejects her fate and tries to rebel creating the black flame and the godskin apostels

                      -> She goes on a crusade against the gods ultimately felling the god of dragons

                      -> This creates the fingerslayer blade

                      -> The fingers send Maliketh to deal with Marika and force her to accept her fate Maliketh defeats Marika

                      -> The greater Will sends the Elden Beast sinking the eternal cities

                      -> Marika is bound by the Elden Ring forcing her to do the Great will's will

                      Also to note would be:

                      - Melina's mother seems to be Marika she herself seems to have an affinity for destined death she could indeed be Marikas soul which escaped her bound body and seeks to free herself from her fate

                      - The Nox could be the name the remaining Numen in the eternal cities took after their sinking

                      - The Apostles also seem to have ties to the god-devouring serpent (The are encountered at the vulcano mansion, the noble has a serpentine tail, the apostle is capabe of extending its torso like the man-serpents) so another possible identity of the gloam-eyed queen could be the serpent. However it could also mean that the serpent was created as a consequence of the god hunt, zoyaras talisman does suggest the sepents orginal name was deadicar after all.

                      • Anonymous

                        Really tired of people trying to connect Dark Souls and Elden Ring when the worlds are functionally entirely different, like ffs space isn't even a thing in Dark Souls and most of the supposed "celestial bodies" are just manifestations of the power of the gods of Lordran and the Age of Fire, and everything in the world of Dark Souls can be traced back to the planet that the games take place on, if Dark Souls even takes place on a planet as we understand it (which in all likelihood it doesn't). If Elden Ring is connected to anything, it's Bloodborne but even then there is a lot of outright contradictory lore in terms of the connections that it's more likely it's just both taking influence from Lovecraftian Horror and ER calling back to Bloodborne.

                        But crack theory anyways Ranni is the moon presence well after the Age of Stars Ending, no I will not be elaborating.

                        • Anonymous

                          Something to consider modifying regarding the Full Moon, the Dark Moon, and the Black Moon. It is implied here on the wiki that they are all the same entity, and while it is possible that they are all connected in some way, and is likely the case, they are absolutely distinct entities from each other. The Dark Moon can be proven to be different from the Full Moon by traveling to the Moonlight Altar at night and observing both of these moons being present in the night sky, the Dark Moon being slightly obscured by the Erdtree. The Black Moon is said to have been destroyed, since the the Memory Stones are supposed to be fragments of it. It's not a big deal on its face to say these are all the same thing, since it's very likely they are all closely related, but it's just kind of a nitpick I guess.

                          • Anonymous

                            A thing to consider is the golden order subsuming the other powers in order to continue persisting. Rogier mentions it having been once more maleable...

                            In light of this it would be intersesting to consider the folowing:
                            1. The frenzied Flame is the "Subsumed" form of the flame ruin however since the conept of ruin (as in all things coming to an end) is anathemic to the very concept of the golden order which is supposed to be eternal it can not be propery integrated into the order and is thus left festering at its roots, embodying the orders hostility towards itself. Here are a few observations counting toward that:
                            -- The flame of frenzy is located directly under the capital - the center of the golden order
                            -- The three fingers are a perversion of the golden orders two fingers implying by their numerical nature to be their sucessor (like counting to three)
                            -- The order has two rules causality and regression with the flame possibly adding a third one mot likly about termination which would be the logical conclusion
                            -- Every outbreak of frenzy occures in the direct vicinity of a minor erdtree
                            -- The flames yellow apearance could be a mix of the flames of ruins red and the golden orders gold

                            2. The gloam-eyed queen was queen marika as an empyrean. While the fact that the queen of the godskin apostles was defeated by maliketh (notice 'defeated' which doesn't mean killed) seems to contradict this, if we consider the role of an empyreans shadow as a "watchdog" (hehe) ensuring his masters safety AND obedience her defeat could have come after trying to go against the fingers will with her former powers being subsequently being sealed away. Here are few points to consider:
                            -- Based on the asperation of the order to be absolute a 'godslayer' as an empyrean would make sense concidering that influence in the lands between seems to be quite contested i.e. while other "inner" gods are mentioned none seem to be around even by the time of godfrey who "only" fights their delegates
                            -- The flame of 'destined death' has a golden hue meaning it could be a combination of the original death as well as the golden orders powers. However while using it on other orders seems to be in line with the golden orders tenets, it also stands in contradiction to it should death be used on the order itself so it was sealed away
                            -- The night of the black knifes was seemingly commited by female 'numen' which where close to marika, who supposedly was once on of them, the godskin apostes are seeminly not human so it is possible they are numen as well, futhermore Dominula the village where you fight one of them has a ritual involving skining as well as specially clad maidens as the main executers of said ritual
                            -- The godlayers sword does sort of resemble the sacret relic sword
                            -- godwyn being the prince of death would obtain futher meaning by him not only being the the first dead demigod, but also being the firstborn of the "death queen" herself. Additionally melina promising 'destined death' to the lord of the frenzied flame does make a lot more sense with her being the 'daughter' of marika. Even more so if we assume that her closed eye similar to rennis means she is also a soul out of her body (which according to herself she lost) making her not just a 'daughter' of marika, but marika herself who escaped her imprisoned self to aid in weakening the greater will's grip on the lands between.

                            3. In combination of the previous points her are a few more possible conclusions:
                            -- Radagon is a being born of the orders domination over the flame of ruin - explaining his red hair as well as he and marika being two seperate beings as well as one and the same. Marika 'cursed' the last giant to forever tend to the flame, however the giant already where cursed too do that, so the giants curse seems to be part of the fact that the flame can't be extinguished. Radagon also seems to yearn to be whole which seems to hint at his being paradoxical in nature
                            -- Malenias fate of harbouring rot could be another version of this she is a being of the golden order affected by the power of another god
                            -- Erdree itself seems too be an adaption of the budding horns of the ancestor spirit, the omens having horns being a consequence of that (or rather a continuation of an existing phenomenom which was then shunned ot as being foreign to the order)
                            -- Bloodflame could be an attempt to adapt the powers of the bloodstar into the golden order

                            4. As a broader notion the whole shattering seems to be an attempt to mend the the schisms in the golden order with the various elden lord endings for example trying to fix them to various effects like:
                            -- reintroducing death - most likely of the soul as they formerly always 'returned' to the erdtree with the possible result that the cycle grew stale since this only allowes exist souls to be reborn instead of new souls emerging from the ashes of the dead and the after effect that souls which weren't allowed to return to the erdtree continued to life within death
                            -- just buring the erdtree witout changing aything which creates a new cycle similar to the old one and with the looming threat of just repeating the same mistake over and over again
                            -- doubling down on the order itself by removing any ambition to further the order in any way in hope of smothering every problem in dogma
                            -- doubleing down on the curses in hope that by making the curse the order the oder becomes stable
                            -- the other two seperate endings abandoning the order alltogether by either introducing a new one with a more hands-off aproach and the compononent of the unknown or burning existance itself in a sort of "if the golden order doesn't work nothing will aproach"
                            -- the game itself refleacting that with you yourself being without 'true' guidance and thus left to reconstruct the world without any clear indicator of what the right way would be

                            • Anonymous

                              What if the formless mother is not an outer god, but th frenzied flames consort? Mog interacts with it directly, which is a new presceedent amongst the outer gods. And if this thing is the new dynasty's equivalent to Marika, then a lot of the duality in the lore gets kinda evened out

                              • Anonymous

                                I don't know why this isn't talked about more, however if you've done the Frenzy ending (spoilers obviously) Melina shows up with a radically different appearance, bearing one purple eye while the other is foggy, and she threatens to deliver Destined Death to the player.

                                I think YouTuber Ratatoskr was the first one to point that out, but that's very likely that Melina is an alias for the Gloam Eyed Queen. There's probably holes in the theory but I think it's very believable and fun.

                                • Anonymous

                                  The reason why the One-eyed god of the Giants isn't part of any ending is quite understandable since the game specifically states that Queen Marika killed it. So it's no longer around to be a part of anything other than the awesome lore of this game.

                                  • Anonymous

                                    There’s a lot more that connect the blood star and the formless mother when you take bloodroses into account. They symbolize both the formless mother and the thorn sorceries. Mohgs OST is one of the few with clear Latin and the first two words are “Sun, Blood”. And while there is a distinction between the formless mothers Bloodflame and the fire giants fell flame I’d note they are almost working together. And the burning of the erdtree is a cardinal sin. The Elden Beast is a vassal for the greater will and is stated as a golden star that fell to the lands between, and if you look at the Cinquedea you can see the dragons and beastmen where lords of the five finger and greater will when it was once a whole hand and not two and three fingers. Hence why it takes on a dragon like form, similar to the twin birds and the deathbirds. And I’d argue the twin bird is certainly the gloam eyed queens formal vassal. With as stated all the dies to black flame and death, and then the bird claw like tattoo over Melina’s Gloamed eye the symbolism just to strong. Once could argue the Fingerslaying blade could potentially be once her corpse and was used by the twin bird itself as a sacred relic sword. And the killing of her would have been enough to grow the ire of the greater will if she was the chosen queen before Marika

                                    • Anonymous

                                      ppl need to stop simping for ranni, yes the dark moon is most certinly an outer god

                                      from what we can see in the game the outer god enfources their will and spread their influnce through an empyrean who becomes a vassal fo them case in point melania bearing the scarlet rot of the rot god and marika bearing the eldan ring of the greater will, this would mean to become a god one must be become a vassal for an outer god you can NEVER be a god without the direct connection with an outer god now we can also confirm that you need to be chosen as an empyrean (we don;t know what qualaties you must have to be one) to be a vassle for an outer god even mhog despite his connection with the formless mother couldn't become a god and sattled for being a lord and maquila being the god

                                      which brings me to my second point ANYONE can be a lord literally anyone so long as they are the spouse of the empyrean thus they become dami gods and so is their children

                                      • Anonymous

                                        Elden ring is probably one of my favorite games but I got no problem saying there’s a lot of useless bs they could EASILY replace wit content leaning towards all this awesome lore. Would love detailed explanation on difference between black flame and destined death, and how deathblight (specifically eclipse shotel death flame) and ghost flame tie in to that

                                        • Anonymous

                                          Why do people keep assuming the Greater Will is malicious? There's no evidence of that in the game, only that the Golden Order is oppressive. But the Order is a manmade thing. Or Numenmade thing or whatever. It was Marika that plucked Destined Death from the Elden Ring, after all.

                                          • Anonymous

                                            I reckon melina is associated with the dusk eyed queen. I reckon marika had some big plot to sabotage the golden order, making radagon fall in with Renalla. Sending off the tarnished and having them return when needed. Shattering the elden ring. She probably had melina act as the kindling and as a fail-safe incase someone allied with the frenzied flame. Since the only way she'd survive is if someone used the frenzy to burn the tree. Maybe marika somehow gave her the power of the dusk eyed queen, who of course was the one that would kill gods. Locked the power unless needed as shown by the 3 fingers tattoo over melinas eye. when the frenzied flame ending happens, her normal eye is dusky while her tattoo is greyed out and her other eye is open, allowing her to use the God killing power to kill the lord of frenzy. This lore is super deep I love it

                                            • Anonymous

                                              So can the God of Rot really do anything with Malenia and her kin dead? It seems like they were its main method of spreading its influence.

                                              • Anonymous

                                                It’s important to remember that the term “God” also is used to refer to beings like Marika, who isn’t an outer god herself but a vessel for it. Because it mentioned that he was an Elden Lord, I assumed that the god Placidusax served was akin Marika before her reign, and it’s possible the one eyed god is the same, not an Outer God but a god-like vessel

                                                • Anonymous

                                                  The one eyed god is confirmed. In some items descriptions there are things like: Tricksome shield made from white stone depicting a malformed one-eyed god. The barrel of a firearm pokes through the open mouth.

                                                  Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika.
                                                  (One eyed shield)

                                                  • Anonymous

                                                    Ghostflame was used to burn the dead before the Erdtree, but it seemingly doesn’t destroy the soul. Most necromantic sorceries describe calling forth spirits to attack. Perhaps the oldest form of magic was harnessing people’s souls?

                                                    • Anonymous

                                                      I don't like how they implied scarlet rot as simply being the power of a sealed outer god beneath the Lake of Rot. I had a much more interesting theory.

                                                      In the lore, the Haligtree was planted by the demigods to potentially replace the waning Erdtree, and to speed up the process they watered it with the blood of Miquella, the cursed infant demigod with (seemingly) perpetually flowing blood.

                                                      I figured that, since the godly Erdtree is the source of all life in the Lands Between and all souls return to it upon death, then the Haligtree's artificial creation by mere demigods and being hastily watered with the cursed blood of an infant in perpetual slumber narratively made sense as the origin of the twisted lifeforms known as scarlet rot. It's honestly a pretty expected trope in fiction, and exists elsewhere in the game too (Albinaurics being created by man). Scarlet rot being the result of the failed attempt to "play god" was perfectly set up to the point of feeling intentional, and then contradicted with a very generic explanation.

                                                      • Anonymous

                                                        I don't like how they implied scarlet rot as simply being the power of a sealed outer god beneath the Lake of Rot. I had a much more interesting theory.

                                                        In the lore, the Haligtree was planted by the demigods to potentially replace the waning Erdtree, and to speed up the process they watered it with the blood of Miquella, the cursed infant demigod with (seemingly) perpetually flowing blood.

                                                        I figured that, since the godly Erdtree is the source of all life in the Lands Between and all souls return to it upon death, then the Haligtree's artificial creation by mere demigods and being hastily watered with the cursed blood of an infant in perpetual slumber narratively made sense as the origin of the twisted lifeforms known as scarlet rot. It's honestly a pretty expected trope in fiction, and exists elsewhere in the game too (Albinaurics being created by man). Scarlet rot being the result of the failed attempt to "play god" was perfectly set up to the point of feeling intentional, and then contradicted with a very generic explanation.

                                                        • Anonymous

                                                          Greater Will
                                                          Frenzied Flame
                                                          The Fell God (likely)
                                                          The Dragon God
                                                          Formless Mother/Blood God
                                                          God of Scarlet Rot/God of Rot
                                                          The Full Moon/Dark Moon
                                                          Lord of Night
                                                          Death Bird God/Mother of Death Birds/Twinbird

                                                          • Anonymous

                                                            I think it's rather interesting that Ranni killed a 3 fingers, when from what I understand, the one that approached her was a 2 fingers. Thoughts?

                                                            • Anonymous

                                                              Honestly, all that theorizing around Blackflame and the Godskins should not take such centre stage when discussing the Deathbird God. Due to the abilities of its servitors such as Ghostflame and all its uses and quirks. (such as the fact that it may act as a lamplight that can guide souls in the afterlife, or that it seems to be the very basis for channelling necromantic magic). Also the gods the possible connections to Godwyn, due to him seemingly being the Lord of the Undead.

                                                              • Anonymous

                                                                Lot of people are conflicted about Moon & Stars being outer gods . We can not really confirm this but what is true is that they are powerful and have influence over lands between (like how earth's moon affect the tides but with sorceries) . At least some of the stars are sentient and space is far from being lifeless. Astel is a malformed star and fallingstar beasts , Elden beast are from space . Alabaster lords, onyx lords , Fallingstar beast and Astel al use gravity one way or another . Moon & stars have power enough to threaten greater will hold on lands between . Are they sentient ? May be , Are they an outer god ? Also May be .

                                                                • Anonymous

                                                                  Honestly, all that theorizing around Blackflame and the Godskins should not take such centre stage when discussing the Deathbird God. Due to the abilities of its servitors such as Ghostflame and all its uses and quirks. (such as the fact that it may act as a lamplight that can guide souls in the afterlife, or that it seems to be the very basis for channelling necromantic magic). Also the gods the possible connections to Godwyn, due to him seemingly being the Lord of the Undead.

                                                                  • Anonymous

                                                                    Honestly, all that theorizing around Blackflame and the Godskins should not take such centre stage when discussing the Deathbird God. Due to the abilities of his servitors, Ghostflame and all its uses and quirks. (such as the fact that its lamplight can guide souls in the afterlife, or that it seems the very basis for channelling necromantic magic). An the gods the possible connections to Godwyn, due to his state as Lord of the Undead.

                                                                    • Anonymous

                                                                      The sorcery you get from the Deathbird in Consecrated Snow Field states that before the Erdtree, dead bodies were burned away with Ghostflame. Feel like this is worth mentioning.

                                                                      • Anonymous

                                                                        I get the feeling that the Ancient God of Dragons and the Greater Will may actually be in league with one another, and that the war with the Erdtree and the dragons was merely a war fought for territory between the dragons and the Golden Order rather than one demanded by their outer gods. The reason why I believe this to be the case is because Lansseax was able to convince the Golden Order that her kind and their kind could coexist, and even managed to get them to allow her to establish the Dragon Cult and the Dragon Communion churches, and many of the Erdtree soldiers use lightning, something that the dragons are known for using as well. On top of that, but the Elden Beast vaguely looks like that of a dragon, which makes me think that the Greater Will was partly inspired/influenced by the Ancient God of Dragons to create it in the vague image of the ancient dragons.

                                                                        • Anonymous

                                                                          Simps still arguing that having wisdom does not make an entity sentient. It’s amazing watching them trying to twist plain words to justify their fan fiction that the Moon is just a piece of space rock. The Moon is a star and we know that the stars are actually sentient beings who control fates.

                                                                          • Anonymous

                                                                            Why is the "Dark Moon, the Stars and the Primeval Current" in the "known outer gods" section. There's no evidence for them being outer gods, so shouldn't it be in the "possible outer gods" section? Or even just give it its own page.

                                                                            (Actually, the Greater Will isn't ever directly called an outer god either, so it could also be moved to the "possible" section.)

                                                                            • Anonymous

                                                                              Quite a few of the outer gods seems to have/had their own champions who was intended to used to control the Elden Ring
                                                                              Greater will - Marika/Radagon
                                                                              Formeless Mother - Mohg
                                                                              Scarlet rot outer God - Malenia
                                                                              Moon & Stars - Ranni
                                                                              Outer god of dragons - Dragonlord Placidusax

                                                                              We know very little about these three to confirm anything - Fell god of giants , Outer god of deathbirds and Blood star . They likely lost their influence or were never had influence enough to acquire powerful campions .

                                                                              I did not mention Frenzied flame because no one except Shabriri is psycho enough to kill all life willingly.

                                                                              • Anonymous

                                                                                “The Dark Moon, also known as the Full Moon”

                                                                                Except not really

                                                                                It’s a full moon yes

                                                                                But not the same one as is referred to as the “full moon” in various other places

                                                                                You can see both in the moonlight altar area

                                                                                • Anonymous

                                                                                  Gee I wonder what the one eyed giant god has in common with the person who used goantsflame to burn the erdtree…

                                                                                  “No related ending”, indeed

                                                                                  • Anonymous

                                                                                    The Dark Moon is a star and stars control the fates. Anyone who believes that Ranni grants free will is a tool. Firstly, the stars do not grant free will as they control the fates; and secondly, Ranni is subject to the Dark Moon’s will. This is pretty much spelt out in the Glintstone Icecrag Spell stating that Ranni was taught to fear the Moon.

                                                                                    • Anonymous

                                                                                      So this planet is filled with a bunch of eldritch super beings buried just underneath the surface. What a bad place to live.

                                                                                      • Anonymous

                                                                                        It is possible that the Outer god worshiped by the dragons gave them their signature wepons: lightning. It could be observed that all lesser, mordern dragons have no lightning abilities, while most of the ancient dragons could use lightning in some capacity. This might be true, or I am reading too much.

                                                                                        • Do any of these endings actually buff the players spells in anyway? That would be intense. Depending on the ending you choose, is like splitting off into a hybrid class section LOL would be neat.

                                                                                          • Do any of these endings actually buff the players spells in anyway? That would be intense. Depending on the ending you choose, is like splitting off into a hybrid class section LOL would be neat.

                                                                                            • Anonymous

                                                                                              I am pretty sure the Frenzied Flame is up for speculation. I believe it is part of the Greater Will as it is remarked by Hyetta that "the Greater Will made a mistake" and that no other Outer God has fingers associated with it. That is why I believe the Three Fingers and in turn the Frenzied Flame and the Lord of Chaos (probably Shabriri) are part of the Greater Will. A byproduct so to speak. An unwanted mistake.

                                                                                              • Anonymous

                                                                                                Anyone else who also wants this to become a DLC? I know that Miquella's is certainly the most awaited DLC, but I think this Outer Gods thing would also be an neat content, where we went to defeat all the godly forces from ER universe.

                                                                                                • Anonymous

                                                                                                  Is the Greater Will ever actually referred to as an 'outer god'?
                                                                                                  From what I've seen, it's seemed that the name refers particularly to those forces explicitly separate from the Greater Will, such as the Frenzied Flame, the rot-god, and Mohg's Formless Mother. It's doubtful that the outer god the Twinbird is mentioned to be an envoy of could be the Greater Will, given the special vagueness of whatever outer god that is in comparison to mentions of the Greater Will.

                                                                                                  • Anonymous

                                                                                                    Is the Greater Will ever actually referred to as an 'outer god'?
                                                                                                    From what I've seen, it's seemed that the name refers particularly to those forces explicitly separate from the Greater Will, such as the Frenzied Flame, the rot-god, and Mohg's Formless Mother. It's doubtful that the outer god the Twinbird is mentioned to be an envoy of could be the Greater Will, given the special vagueness of whatever outer god that is in comparison to mentions of the Greater Will.

                                                                                                    • Anonymous

                                                                                                      The frenzied flame is not its own separate outer god. It is a part of the Greater Will as stated by Hyetta after you touch her with the flame. Also, it does not just want to burn away the world, as if it were it simple and evil force. That's a really gross oversimplification of it. I recommend watching Ratatoskr's videos about the Frenzied Flame if you want to understand it.

                                                                                                      • Anonymous

                                                                                                        Saying that the frenzied flame simply wants to "burn the world" is extremely disingenuous to the entire concept of the great equalizer and the dismantling of division.

                                                                                                        • Anonymous

                                                                                                          The connection between the Formless Mother with curse and omen is very weak. You are making the connection solely because of generic words like "curse". This section under the Formless Mother should be removed.

                                                                                                          • Anonymous

                                                                                                            The part about the Formless Mother being related to Dung-Eater seems shaky. Don't really see it being relevant.

                                                                                                            • Anonymous

                                                                                                              Still not understanding how Placidusax was Elden Lord before the Erdtree arrived. Isn’t the Elden Lord the consort of the Elden Rings vessel? No tree and no ring should thus mean no Elden Lord right?

                                                                                                              • Anonymous

                                                                                                                Does any description or dialogue actually point to the idea that the Greater Will is skimming off souls as they are recycled through the Erdtree for reincarnation? --or is this just a really popular fan theory, because the jar warriors and the root catacombs are so freaky to us Earth people? The Dung Eater and the Tower of Return Ghost are pretty clear that they expect the spirits of the dead to be reincarnated after they are absorbed by the Erdtree roots, not eaten by space whales.

                                                                                                                • Anonymous

                                                                                                                  So is "The Blood Star" the same as the Formless Mother? --- Briars of Punishment: "The guilty, their eyes gouged by thorns, lived in eternal darkness. There, they discovered the blood star."

                                                                                                                  • Anonymous

                                                                                                                    Age of Stars merely replaces the Greater Will with the Black Moon. And even if you think that the Moon is just a piece of space rock (highly unlikely), the Lands Between will be ruled by the sorcerers who benefit from the stars arriving to empower glintstone sorcery. The end result is that the leader of the sorcerers will become the new lord of the land. Free will? The common people will simply serve a new master.

                                                                                                                    • Anonymous

                                                                                                                      “ although it appears to accomplish this by harvesting the life-essence of the dead of the Lands Between through the roots of the Erdtree.”

                                                                                                                      Where is this ever stated in game?

                                                                                                                      And is there any definitive link between the dark moon of Ranni and the moon of nokstella?

                                                                                                                      Why doesn’t the frenzied flame section contain more information from Melina and the other characters who attest regardless of if they agree or not that It’s goal is to remove suffering by melting away all that divides the world? Saying it’s “malevolent” when it’s intentions are said to be benevolent, and just wants to burn the world feels like a misportrayal it’s a gross oversimplification of its purported intent

                                                                                                                      Is there actually any solid connection between the deathbirds and destined death/the gloamy eyed queen besides that they involve death

                                                                                                                      Where all does scarlet rot being associated with an outer god come from?

                                                                                                                      When did Ranni assist any Nox assassins? I haven’t seen anything imply the black knifes are actually Nox, I have seen that they’re numen however. Or is this about some other assassins?

                                                                                                                      • Anonymous

                                                                                                                        What's the deal with the God-Devouring Serpent and Rykard? I am fairly certain that the Serpent is an Outer God or at least a catalyst of it.

                                                                                                                        First, he and the folks of Volcano really hate the Erdtree and the regular gods who 'destroyed' the Lands Between. Not surprising, a few other fractions existing in Elden Ring, who confronted the Elden Ring but only Rykard and the inhabitants of the Volcano Manor are openly hostile toward the Greater Will and ALL demigods.

                                                                                                                        Malenia and Miquella trying to install their own version of order (Hailgtree versus the Erdtree) whether under the influence of a different Outer God, Ranni and crew wants to remove the Greater Will influence and let humans be their own, but Rykard wants to absorb all the gods to punishing them for taking by force via the good eye for eye matter as the Taker's Cameo suggest.

                                                                                                                        "A talisman engraved with a stern likeness of Praetor Rykard,
                                                                                                                        master of Volcano Manor.
                                                                                                                        Restores HP upon defeating enemies.

                                                                                                                        When Rykard turned to heresy, taking by force became the rule.
                                                                                                                        The gods themselves were no different, after all."

                                                                                                                        The Greater Will subjugated to the Lands of Between by force. Defeating both the God of the Fire Giant and the Dragonlord, who apparently lived in harmony until the Greater Will showed up. Interesting the Fire Giants were defeated by Radagon, Ranni's and Rykard's father but somehow neither of the siblings interested in upkeeping the father's legacy. Instead they hosted their own elemental based fraction, Ranni focusing on the freezing dark moon sorceries meanwhile Rykard pioneering the magma sorceress, which are the heavy modification of Rennala's Carian sorcery.

                                                                                                                        The more interesting question, the two siblings are cooperated Their intentions being very similar and honestly their methods are not very different either. Luring the tarnished to do the dirty work (good old murder) for them while indoctrinating them via the happy godless land theory then taking the gods power to the outer entity. Ranni hanging out the moon and Rykard feeding it with the Serpent.

                                                                                                                        The Blashphemous Claw's description confirms that:

                                                                                                                        "A slab of rock engraved with traces of the Rune of Death.

                                                                                                                        Can deflect the power of the Black Blade.

                                                                                                                        On the night of the dire plot, Ranni rewarded Praetor Rykard with these traces. Should the coming trespass one day transpire, they would serve as a last-resort foil, allowing Rykard to challenge Maliketh the Black Blade, the black beast of Destined Death."

                                                                                                                        According to their plan Rykard (and the Serpent) planned to overcome Death and defeat Malkieth and take the Destined Death itself to break the Erdtree's influence. Rykard himself didn't do it (Serpent doesn't look very mobile) but Knight Berhald one of Rykard Champion's will appear at Crumbling Fazula at his questline and actually attempts to complete the quest. That assumes, Rykard neither betrayed Ranni nor doubts his followers. But after his death Berhald eats from the Serpent body takes the Serpent's teeth (Devourer's Scepter) and became mad and tries to devour the player character as well. (If someone says he wants to revenge Rykard in Farum Azula they should read his last dialog. He says that killing Rykard is fair game based on their principles, then swears revenge against the Greater Will. He is no longer talking to you).

                                                                                                                        As it's description states:

                                                                                                                        "Scepter in the shape of a serpent devouring the world. This
                                                                                                                        weapon will one day become the very symbol of the Lord of
                                                                                                                        One of the legendary armaments.

                                                                                                                        A vision of the future briefly seen by Rykard in his final moments
                                                                                                                        before being devoured by the great serpent."

                                                                                                                        That births the question what is the God Devouring Serpent and what exactly devouring is. For the first question, according to Tanith, the Serpent Blade and Rykard itself it's an immortal snake which can devour anything. The snake with his throat wide open is traditional symbol of greed and averice (remember to the covetous serpent rings) but also the circular form of life from death, life and re birthing (the Ouroborous) . Notice that when you last talk with Tanith she devours the twitching body of Rykard who she just briefly stated will return.

                                                                                                                        "You... It's true then. You've defeated out Lord. No, I must thank you. Our Lord was yet weak. You have taught us that. Defeat is not the end. Our Lord is immortal, and will one day rise again, stronger. Until then, I must stay the path, and do my part. (...)

                                                                                                                        "Oh, you... Allow me some time. Our lord's carcass is vast and not easily consumed. Dear Rykard, please find purchase within me, I wish to be your serpent; your family. One day, let us devour the gods together."

                                                                                                                        She devouring the twitching snake, for a (futile) attempt to become AND revive the proclaimed Immortal Snake. Then she (and her bodyguard) tries to amicably devour you. I would remind everyone that Tanith and the Manor remains friendly to you even AFTER defeating Rykard, they're only turning hostile when you either openly refuse to murder the targets or the end when they eat Rykard's carcass and they're trying to devour you.

                                                                                                                        That confirms two things. Rykard and his followers do not consider eating other tarnished as a hostile act or even killing as most normal people would.

                                                                                                                        Rykard fed himself with the Serpent and all of the participants of the Manor Cult willing to. By the tactical placement of the Serpent Hunter, the only weapon which can even remotely hurt the Serpent also the amicable behavior of the Manor it is possible that the Manor actually wants the champions to win to strengthen the Immortal Serpent. Why otherwise put the weapon there? If they're fail, the Serpent eats them and together become stronger, if they win they eat the Serpent and become stronger together as the Serpent reborn. The process is technically voluntary.

                                                                                                                        That leads to the next confirmation. The serpent does not 'kill' who are involving in the ritual. Rykard's Rancor and Blasphemous Blade both confirms the soul of champion's are trapped but the snake doesn't kill them in a traditional sense. It destroys their body and pulls them out from the circle of Erdtree (life and death) and using their souls as weapon also the devoured collectively see a brief vision of the future, when the Serpent pulls them out from the cycle and put them in its own.

                                                                                                                        That would conclude that the Serpent's end goal to culminate the mass of tarnished souls to through several rebirth to become strong enough to overcome the Destined Death and the Greater Will. Now only one question remains, who created the Immortal Serpent and for what purpose?

                                                                                                                        The factual immortality outside of Erdtree's cycle makes it unlikely that it linked to the Greater Will or the Lands Between.

                                                                                                                        Rykard (a demigod) usurping their consciousness (see the Rykard fight) would assume that the Serpent itself is not an Outer God. Otherwise, the subject of worship wouldn't be Rykard and the royal plural of souls. Rykard is obviously the dominant element of the souls mix. It seems unlikely however, if anyone would fed themselves (Rykard was the first according to the Scepter) to anything if someone beforehand didn't tell him that the usual expectation's won't play there. At best he would fed everyone else with the Serpent.

                                                                                                                        But whoever created the Serpent made it for specially Rykard and Rykard's sorcery keeps the circle going. The Immortal Serpent looks like just a catalyst and a medium for that mysterious entity. That entity is not mentioned yet, but I am fairly certain it must be an Outer God.

                                                                                                                        It can be the very same Outer God , Ranni the Witch (or her master) served or a different entity, which would explain why the communication and active cooperation between Rykard and Ranni halted after severing the Death Rune.

                                                                                                                        • Anonymous

                                                                                                                          I think the darkmoon is in some way the "artificial outer god" that was created by the people in the the eternal city, and it simply channels the power the primeval current of the stars. This is concurrent with each of the gods channeling the power of an outer God, with Ranni essentially becoming a God who channels the power of the artificial outer God who channels the power of the stars, aka sorcery. The fact that the moon is artificial may be why sorceries use a different kind of catalyst compared to incantations.

                                                                                                                          • Anonymous

                                                                                                                            Note also the colors of the different remembrances, it seems their color indicates their source, all the demigods coming from Marika/Radagon are golden (even Malenia, Rykard and Mohg), associated with the greater will. Rennala and Astel have the same too, associated with the Stars/Glinstone/The Moon or something in space. Fire Giant, Placidusax and Regal ancestor spirit have unique colors, so one for the flame of the giants outer god, a dragon outer god, and a rebirth outer god?, i find the ancestor spirits very intersting because they dont fit at all with the rest of the world, the idea of life coming from death is very logical but dosent work with the greater will and the return of souls to the erdtree, or the live in death bit caused by the corruption dispersed by the body of Godwyn, so maybe they are manifestations of a native or primeval not so-outer god? idk

                                                                                                                            • Anonymous

                                                                                                                              I'm not entirely sure if it's the same entity, but the Nox armor sets' descriptions reference a being they call the "Lord of Night". Is it too much of a stretch to assume that the Lord of Night and the Dark Moon of Nokstella are the same being?

                                                                                                                              • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                The dark moon is called the Black Moon of Nokstella and its Elden Lord is called the Lord of Night. This is the same outer god worshipped by the Eternal Cities.

                                                                                                                                Apparently Ranni fanboys are now trying to argue that Age of Stars has got no outer god, so that it can be seen as the best ending.

                                                                                                                                The Eternal Cities who worshipped the stars came up with all kinds of twisted rituals like creating the poor Albinaurics. So it is mind boggling to see the Age of Stars being sold as a good ending.

                                                                                                                                • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                  The name of the god of Chaos is Shabriri - killing Yura's corpse when he's inhabited by Shabriri gives you special dialogue where he describes himself as chaos incarnate

                                                                                                                                  • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                    I disagree that there's a god of scarlet rot we haven't met yet. The name shows up in a lot of descriptions but Malenia's items, like Scarlet Aeonia are pretty clear in saying that Malenia herself is the 'Goddess of Rot'. The 'essence of an outer god' sealed in the lake possibly has something to do with Astel instead, seeing as his boss fight is locked behind it.

                                                                                                                                    • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                      Is the Dark Moon ever actually referred to as an Outer God? I just got the vibe that it was an astrological body. And, like, we know falling stars can be monsters or carry the envoys of Outer Gods. But that doesn't mean ever hunk of space rock is an Outer God.

                                                                                                                                      • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                        Possibly another outer god related to omens and curses one that influences dung eaters actions. Omens seem to have recurring nightmares that share a likness could this be another outer god?

                                                                                                                                        • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                          UNNAMED GOD OF THE DARK MOON. I dont think this is true.
                                                                                                                                          1. All incantations are related to some outer god. If this were to be true, raani's spells would be incantations not sorcery.
                                                                                                                                          2. The entire point of her quest was to not be controlled by any God.

                                                                                                                                          • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                            I think the Outer God that the Fire Giants worship is the one-eyed being that shows itself in the Fire Giant boss's second phase. It's mentioned in the One Eyed Shield and it looks almost exactly the same. The shield's description says it was *believed* to have been defeated by Marika, but not *was* defeated. Plus the mention in Flame of the Fell God, etc.

                                                                                                                                            • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                              Seath & Guyra are demi-gods in their own right, why aren't people talking about the similarities between the Erdtree's elden beast and Sylval's Dragon tree Vallad from Kings Field. Seath could represent Ranni and the Dark Moon, and Guyra could represent Chaos and the Frenzied Flame.
                                                                                                                                              I'm not gonna go into the speculation that Shabriri or the Frenzied Flame rose again as the Old Yellow Monk from Demons souls, and then the Yellow Garb being the influence of the conception of the Chaos Flame in Izalith via King Izalith... I feel like there are many other connections to make.
                                                                                                                                              The crucible and the Golden Dragon Knights are direct references to Kings Field when they battled against the Seed of Evil. Sounds a lot like DeathRoot. Any thoughts or speculation? I feel like I'm onto something.

                                                                                                                                              • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                I think Miquella is worth mentioning here. It seems like he was attempting to become a god, or was at least an envoy of an unnamed one like his sister. He was cursed just like she was so there's an unnamed outer god involved with him. We don't know anything about it since he could uniquely seal away its meddling but the outer gods definitely cause the curses.

                                                                                                                                                • Greyoll could be a God that was awaited by Elden Lord Placidusax. Like Marika was Elden Lord Godfrey's God.
                                                                                                                                                  You can get only 3 legendary incanations, and 2 of them belong to Gogs: Elden Tree (Elden Stars) and Fell God of Fire Giants (Flame of the Fell God).
                                                                                                                                                  I see no reason why Greyoll's Roar should be different.
                                                                                                                                                  Also, Placidusax's Ruin is golden flame, so outer god of dragons could be the same as outer god of Erd Tree and it's a Great Will: "The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree".
                                                                                                                                                  Ironic that Placidusax wanted to be eternal same as Marika.

                                                                                                                                                  • Best I can tell from my own readings, the Frenzied Flame and the Greater Will used to be one entity, called by Hyetta as the "One Great". But in its implementation of the Golden Order, a mistake was made, some kind of perceived imperfection. This One Great had its consciousness split over the issue. One side choosing to safeguard the Golden Order that they implemented, regardless of this flaw, and maintain this balance that they have enforced on the world, while the other side wanted to wipe the slate clean, return all souls to their source and try again from the ground up. Incapable of agreeing, they split, and this is most represented in the Three and Two Fingers, pieces of a whole hand. The Greater Will seems to have won out in the end, and locked away the Lesser Will, or Frenzied Flame, as well as its envoy the Three Fingers.

                                                                                                                                                    • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                      I think it's worth pointing out that although "Outer God" implies some sort of cosmic entity trying to interfere with the world, and seems to distinguish "outer" gods from normal gods, there essentially *are* no non-outer gods. The Greater Will is the highest god that the entire Erdtree faith is based around, and it becomes clear that this is also an Outer God, who sent the Elden Beast to the Lands Between as the seed of the Erdtree at some point. Marika is the only one referred to as a "god" regularly, but the Numen (her people) are also said to have come from somewhere else, and her godhood is only bestowed to her by the Greater Will as she holds the Elden Ring for them. Basically my point is, there is no meaningful distinction between what is called a "god" or an "outer god."

                                                                                                                                                      At most, the distinction is cultural and a construct. The Erdtree faith becomes the accepted dominant religion of the land, and their pantheon become the accepted normal gods, while labeling all other gods as "outer gods." But we know by the end that they are no more naturally the gods of this land than any others. I think it's worth keeping in mind when interpreting the nature of something that was labeled as an "outer" god.

                                                                                                                                                      • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                        Who the hell wrote the “ THE FRENZIED FLAME” section? It’s never said to be malevolent, it is said that it’s goal is to erase all that divides and distinguishes, reverting the world to its original state before the greater will’s interventions, and in doing so prevent further suffering and curses.

                                                                                                                                                        • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                          So, we know that the Black Flame had the ability to kill Gods, but does that mean that it could kill the Outer Gods too? I understand that they're formless and all that, but it'd be interesting to know in case there was some type of Black Flame ending where we reject all gods

                                                                                                                                                          • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                            can't wait what dlc willl give us possibly another ending where we just out right negate every god either way i look foward to future of this game

                                                                                                                                                            • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                              I think Astel is pretty unambiguously an Outer God as well.

                                                                                                                                                              The Scorpion Stinger, found at the Cloister nearby has the description:


                                                                                                                                                              Dagger fashioned from a great scorpion's tail, glistening with
                                                                                                                                                              scarlet rot.

                                                                                                                                                              A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relic of a
                                                                                                                                                              sealed outer god."

                                                                                                                                                              • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                                Moon of Nokstella talisman - "This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars." i believe this is the name of the unnamed dark moon outer being

                                                                                                                                                                • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                                  Moon of Nokstella talisman - "This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars." i believe this is the name of the unnamed dark moon outer being

                                                                                                                                                                  • Anonymous

                                                                                                                                                                    Is it possible that the deathbirds and black flame monks could essentially worship the same outer god, even if they were prominent in different time periods? I do see the theme of the black flame present in both and it is possible that when the twinbird fell as the vassal of the outer god of the black flame, the gloam eyed queen rose to take it's place, or vice versa and we might see the twinbird in some DLC

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