Dragon Communion Seal | Elden Ring Wiki

seen a comment on another page saying the poison armament spell's build up scales with the Ripple Blade & Crescent Ripple Halberd's arcane scaling and now im seeing here that this seal also scales poison armament's build up as well, based on this seals own arcane stat. So now i have to ask, does using this seal while casting spell buffs on the Ripple Blade double boost the build up you get? if so does anyone know any exact numbers in terms of the highest possible build up? i think it would be helpful for comparisons-sake.

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seen a comment on another page saying the poison armament spell's build up scales with the Ripple Blade & Crescent Ripple Halberd's arcane scaling and now im seeing here that this seal also scales poison armament's build up as well, based on this seals own arcane stat. So now i have to ask, does using this seal while casting spell buffs on the Ripple Blade double boost the build up you get? if so does anyone know any exact numbers in terms of the highest possible build up? i think it would be helpful for comparisons-sake.

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These are affected by cast speed. The only way that the named breaths aren't is by jumping before activating. Dragonclaw, magma breath/theodorix magma follow up is also not impacted by cast speed but the initial attack is.

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If I use this seal to cast something like catch flame which scales with faith, will it take in consideration my 25 arc or just 10 fth I have?

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does arcane scaling from it affect lingering bleed build up on Bloodboon and Bloodflame Talons?

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If you're an Arcane build looking for a way around Elden Beast's immunity to every status effect, get 11 faith so you can use this thing and spam Pest Threads :p

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Feels like the DLC will give us pyromancy fit to use with this seal thanks to Messmer. Seeing the subtle hints such as their eye, their seal and them wielding fire, can’t wait to see what new incantations we get to play with. or who knows, we might just get a whole new seal as well.

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45 faith/45 arc, dragon communion seal +10 has 336 incant scaling.

Now what if you take 15 points from faith and put them into arc?

30 faith/60 arc, dragon communion seal +10 has 333 incantanation scaling.

So it is actually slightly better at 45/45, however the difference is very small. Going for 30/60 will let you have more damage and bleed buildup with arcane weapons.

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Isn't the flame of Messmer really similar to this one? Maybe it's just me but if you look, he has drake eyes and similar armor than the drake armor, which could lead us to think both the set and this item are inspired after him?

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Imagine making the best seal for an incantation build scale with Arcane instead of Faith. Seems silly

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Taken from the chart "ER - Scaling Data (App Ver. 1.10.0)"
Dragon communion seal (and albanauric staff) gain additional scaling towards poison, bleed, sleep, and madness.
According to the graph, at 45 arcane the bonus is 15% (percentage of the scaling).

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I got summoned to another world trying to pick it up and the knight isn’t there anymore. Can I still get the seal?

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Would be really cool if this had that minor flame breath spell that the Banished Knights use as a skill. Would be a cool finishing touch for heavy builds, and the fact that it's weightless would be a great boon given how chunky the Banished Knight set is.

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"Formless," you say?

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Can we just take a moment to appreciate how ridiculously cheap this thing is to upgrade? Just in case we didn't have enough reasons to love it.

The other thing I love about it: you don't even need to fight the Banished Knight in the hero's grave for it. If the chariot is still alive, you can just aggro him with whatever and, in the time it takes him to stand up and come after you, you can run out of his melee range and back down to the last alcove you passed on the way to him. He'll do the default Banished Knight thing of walking slowly toward you with his shield up, which will all but guarantee he'll still be walking down the chariot's path when the chariot returns. It'll run him over once, turn around, and run him over again before he gets up from the first hit (which will kill him even if he was at full health to start with). All you have to do is make doubly sure you don't get killed by anything on your way to pick up the seal.

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Most stat efficient seal in the game, especially when combo'd with the Silver Tear Mask (rip fashion). Gets 318 Incant Scaling at 30 Faith, 37 Arcane (+8 from Silver Tear Mask to get to 45), which can be achieved at only level 48 on a Prophet. To exceed that with Erdtree Seal you need 72 Faith, which requires a minimum of level 63 on a Prophet, so 15 levels higher. To exceed it with Golden Order Seal you need 41/40 or 40/41 Int/Faith, which requires a minimum of level 64 on an Astrologer, so 16 levels higher.

Is it the best seal in the game if you want to do absolute maximum damage? No, but it gives insane amounts of power much earlier than any other seal, by way of it being available right at the start of the game, being flat out the most stat-efficient seal, and also being a Somber Stone item. Also if you're using Dragon Incants it has an effective Incant Scaling of around 366, which would take literally 99 Faith to exceed with Erdtree Seal. Dragon Incants also have the massive advantage of now being able to leverage Roar Medallion, which is 10% extra damage very, very early in the game that beats out even Flock's Canvas Talisman for raw damage, though using both is probably the best option for dragon builds.

You can get a +5 Seal very early by rushing to Iji by skipping Stormveil, and using the teleporter to the right of Academy Gate town which should take you to right in front of Kingsrealm Ruins where Iji is right behind. You can simply buy Somber Stones 1,2,3, and 4 from him. The 5th can be found in the canyon to the right of the exit of Sellia Crystal Tunnel, so also accessible very early. Marika's Scarseal is also available quite early in Siofra which is just down the well in Mistwood. If you kill Greyoll, level 35 is also available to you. In probably under 30-40 minutes you can have 20 Vigor, 17 Mind, 20 Faith, and 30 Arcane with a +5 Seal, and a Roar Medallion. With the 197 Incant Scaling,Roar Medallion, and Flame Grant Me Strength (also available early by just riding Torrent there), Dragonfire did 1,935 damage to the Secluded Cell Troll, with Catch Flame dealing 435 damage. Those numbers are just flat out unbeatable for every other seal that early in the game.

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For arcane builds, a smattering of 15 or so faith gives you pocket nukes for anything that doesn't bleed. The scaling on this seal is so absolutely bonkers that for 90% of the game it will outperform any other seal at the same pure faith/upgrade level; just grab the dragon breath du jour and go to town. Or have access to two of the best fire spells (catch flame and hurl flame) and a suite of buffs along with all the beast spells which will be massively stronger than using the clawmark seal.

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The absolute best utility seal in the game. I always start as a wretch, so no need to fear the requirements. Get 12 faith and boom! Several important utility spels for 0 weight on any class

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is this worth running on a build with 12 faith and 11 arcane? I'm using a blood flame blade and poisonous mist. will it make them better?

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Crazy how all the dual scaling seals are OP as hell and the dual scaling staffs are complete dogshit.

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At 50 INT, 50 FAITH & 50 ARCANE, "Dragon Communion Seal" has Incant Scaling of 343, beaten by only 2 points by "Golden Order Seal" Incant Scaling of 345 at the same stats.

At 50 INT, 50 FAITH & 99 ARCANE (should you want max passive item discovery), "Dragon Communion Seal" has Incant Scaling of 394. This beats "Golden Order Seal" Incant Scaling of 345 at the same stats.

At 80 INT, 80 FAITH & 99 ARCANE, "Dragon Communion Seal" has Incant Scaling of 407. This beats "Golden Order Seal" Incant Scaling of 390 at the same stats.

At 99 INT, 99 FAITH & 99 ARCANE, "Dragon Communion Seal" has Incant Scaling of 415 being beaten by only 3 points by the "Golden Order Seal" Incant Scaling of 418!

In conclusion, I kinda prefer the Dragon Seal actually. It buffs the far more useful and cool dragon communion incantations, plus, with stats in ARC, you get extra bleed/poison on stuff too.

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Does this seal boost bloodboons bleed buildup?

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I'm doing a full caster dragon build, should I carry Erdtree seal in my mainhand and this in my offhand? Since Erdtree gives more scaling at high faith and Arcane doesn't scale with any dragon breaths if iirc

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I love this thing. So cool that you can go full arcane (25 faith is standard anyways bc of golden vow) and still hit really hard with incantations, without having to get faith up high.

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I want to try Morgott's Cursed Sword and this for a spell-bladeish build. Using primarily Bloodboon and Bloodflame Talons so as to keep faith low and investing in arcane up to 60 for Morgott's sword scaling, and 40 dex for casting speed and damage, how would it perform? (My current character is actually level 203 and has bandit base stats, if it will matter)

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I'm looking to make a light equip build but it is not a spellcaster build. More like a scythe-wielding rogue build. Is this a suitable seal for cures, defense buffs and weapon buffs? I currently have finger seal equipped, but I happen to have this one and it's weightless, and I meet the requirements to use it (started as a wretch). As a sidenote, I'm mostly a pver who enjoys helping in coop, if that matters.

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Putting aside Dragon incantations for a sec, I’m glad this seal exists since it gives damage (but not heal) incantation access to pure Arcane builds whose primary weapon is either Bloody Helice or an Occult-infused weapon. Bloody Helice in one hand, fireballs (or lightning, or those actual blood incantations of mohg) in the other. One way to round out the pierce damage of Bloody Helice (instead of carrying a hammer or flail, which isn’t very graceful).

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45 arc/45 faith are the actual softcaps, no idea who edited the page

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Dragon communion spells can carry you through the whole game, its a good mix of tactical + rpg for someone that isn't full sword & board sweaty but wants more stimulation than glintstone brain rot.

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Dragon communion spells can carry you through the whole game, its a good mix of tactical + rpg for someone that isn't full sword & board sweaty but wants more stimulation than glintstone brain rot.

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It's kinda crazy how, with 80 in every stat, this seal is just 3 Incant Scaling away from the strongest seal, the Golden Order seal, which scales with two stats at once.

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Seems like the highest scaling at higher levels like if you are lvl 300 say and have 80 faith 80 arcane, dragonmaw becomes stupidly strong, just fought elden beast at Ng+3 with two of these at +10 and spamming dragonmaw sntace broke it twice and had it down to 10% health quicker than ever before it escaped to drop it's rings on me from the sky dragging on the fight

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Does the buff from this on dragon incantations double up if I use two of them (one in each hand)?

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Some people say this seal makes frostbite(from Frozen Lightning Spear) scale with arcane, some say it does not bc frostbite never scales with arcane. Which one is true??

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Reading this page has made me even more confused on whether or not this seal increases status buildup of spells. When the game came out it did and it was a very noticeable amount. Did the status buildup increase from arcane only get reduced or removed completely?

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The actual soft cap for this seal is 30 Faith and 45 Arcane.

For Arcane scaling you will get 3 Incant Scaling points until 45 Arcane. Then only 1 point each level.

For faith scaling you will get 2.50 Incant Scaling points until 30. Then 1.2 point until 45 Faith. And after that 1 point every 2 or 3 levels.

So from 30 Faith to 45 Faith (15 Levels) you will get only 18 Incant Scaling points which it's wasteful, better to invest them into mind or vigor or anything else.

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"other Arcane scaling weapons the player migth use" noticed a spelling error, its in the 'notes & tips' section if anyone plans to fix it^^

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Article claims:
"This seal's scaling with Arcane also means it increases the Bloodloss, Scarlret Rot, Poison and Madness build up of incantations cast."

Ignoring the spelling error on Scarlet Rot are we certain Scarlet Rot build up is enhanced by Arcane? Because it contradicts the Info on the Arcane page, which only mentions blood, poison, madness and sleep for Arcane. Also all the Scarlet Rot incantations like the dragon ones and Scarlet Aeonia have fixed build up values on their respective wiki sites, which is unusual if the build up is supposed to be dependent on your Arcane level and not fixed at all.

I believe the error is on this page. Arcane doesnt influence Scarlet Rot build up on weapons like the Antspur Rapier (when given Arcane Scaling) or Arcane scaling Weapons buffed with Rot Grease. So why would it influence incantations only?

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I've defeated that banished knight 3 times now and not once has it dropped the dragon communion seal. Is my game bugged?

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I was struggling against the Valiant Gargiyles... Then I went to get this seal. And Smarags Glintstone breath. Suddenly incants felt powerful. That said, if I don't go arc/fth, and go fth or fth/dex when is it time to change seals, and what seal?

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Although it procs madness faster, that 40% damage buff that two Frenzy Flame seals give is actually way more valuable to pure madness casters. I’m talking like 1200 vs 800 damage.

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Kinda looks like the Rite of Kindling from DS1

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for anyone confused o n the math...

Faith Arcane
16 10
+58 = +58
74 10

Faith Arcane
16 10
+23 +35 = +58
39 45

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If you want to cast rotten breath as a lvl 1 wretch this is a good choice due to the zero carry weight as it will save precious pounds to allow you to still wear the silver tear helm with it

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Can somebody help me? I can't find it, I killed multiple times the enemy but he doesn't drop anything

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Arcane/Faith are best builds and this fits perfectly.

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Dragon Communion Incantations are influenced by casting speed, article is wrong. Noticeably so, even. The only exception is the jumping dragon casts.

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At lvl 115, 43 vig, 17 mind, 25 fth, 31 arc - dragon communion seal +6, Marika's scarseal. Plant latenna on the tree where a branch is coming out. My latenna is only +4. Now approach from the sanctum, use dragonmaw. When he aggros, pull off and latenna will aggro him, he'll keep trying to reach latenna and fail in most of his combos, take your time munching on him with dragonmaw. Even if he poise breaks just spam the maw on him. Took me like 5-7ish minutes.

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When I hold one of these in each hand, is the incantation additive or multiplicative? Meaning is it 15% + 15% = 30%, or 1.15*1.15 = 32.25%, bonus to the Dragon incants?

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It wrote:　＂ At 74 faith and above primarily faith scaling seals (Erdtree Seal and Godslayer's Seal) outperform this seal at the same level of stat investment (39/45 Fai/Arc for the Dragon Communion Seal)　＂

But 39+45=84, not 74

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second strongest seal

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Urgh, another Heroes Grave...what a hassle.

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I don't know why this Wiki says Radagon's Icon doesn't effect Dragon Communion spells but it absolutely does. It just doesn't effect the initial start up of the spell. It effects the second casting of it. While i wouldn't say it nearly as effective as id like the statement it doesn't work is still false.

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i've found it's useful just because of the fact that it weighs 0. i used it to apply bloodflame to a GUGS and, when combined with armor, i didn't have enough weight for a seal without fat rolling. went through, got this and giant hunt, now i'm easily one-shotting everything.

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"Will increase the buildup of Status Effects that spells cause, like madness for Frenzied Burst."

This is incorrect! I tested Bloodflame Talons, Swarm of Flies, Bloodflame Boon, and Rotten Breath today using my own PS5 and my roommates PS5. There is NO INCREASE for status buildup on these spells when you increase arcane, so just meeting the arcane requirement, investing in faith, and using a faith only scaling seal is most efficient.

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Is this worth using with only getting to 17 arcane for the dragon abilities? Or should I just use the regular one until I get to the capitol?

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Best early game caster tool, even better than Meteorite Staff. Catch Flame does stupid damage with this thing

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I briefly tested dual wielding these (NG+) against the Godrick Soldier patrolling the road behind the Church of Elleh, and it seems that the 15% damage boost to Dragon Communion Incantations DOES stack.
I'd urge others to test this to confirm it. If true, the same should apply to other seals/staves that boost a particular school of spells.

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This seal looks like my ass after I eat too much chili.

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In case anyone wants to know like I did, dragon communion at 45/45 his 336 incant scaling

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The dragon communion seal does have a softcap of sort at 30 faith, investment above that level will yield only a little more than 1 incant scaling per level, it's not worth it. If you go 45 fth 45 arc you might as well use the erdtree seal with 80 fth (same investment), it will be more powerful (unless you already have investments in arcane for the spell requirments, I guess). For the dragon communion seal you should stop at 30 fth 45 arc and invest your remaining points in vigor endurance mind. You can always use the faith talisman and the faith-boosting tear to get your faith to 45 temporarily for when you want just a little bit more damage.

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Has 0 weight and can be obtained without killing any enemy yourself (you can lure the knight holding it into the chariot). So you can, technically, finish the game at 0 weight and only ever using dragon incantations.

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"Brings character way above PvP meta levels" Who tf cares? This is a long ass, giant, open world game. This community is still acting like it's Dark Souls. People should be free to level up however much they want instead of feeling constrained to a made up meta. Especially when the PvP in this game sucks ass anyways.

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Does anyone else think that this seal looks an awful lot like a cursemark?

Similarly, the description references “formless drakeblood.” Was the Formless Mother a dragon?

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It kinda makes sense that this seal doesnt count Placidusax Ruin as a Dragon Communion incant, from a lore point perspective Dragonlord Placidusax never went out from the Heart of the Storm when the war broke out in Leyndell and judging from the way how Dragon Communion works, they seem to copy and imitate how lesser dragons, and even well known dragons attack so it is likely they no one ever saw him besides you and maybe a select few powerful beings.

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damn ppl really complaining about nerfs bc they can't crutch broken gear anymore. guess y'all gotta actually play the game dang so sad.

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Buffs Dragon Communion Incantations by 15%.
Thing I noticed with this is that you don't even have to be using this to get the benefit, just holding it. You can use a different catalyst for scaling reasons and still get the bonus. Makes me wonder if this applies to other catalysts and such

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This seal softcaps at 45/45, not 30/45. From 30 to 45 Fth the seal gains one spell buff each point, after that the spell buff drops significantly to less than 1 per point, just like Arcane.

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For a STR build with minimal FAI and ARC, using dragon incants.

Would it be better to use this seal, or the clawmark seal for the STR scaling?

I’ll test to find the answer.

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this seal existing is proof enough that you can beat elden ring at 0 equip load.

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At 45 arcane and 30 faith, urgent heal restores 171 hp. At the listed hp per incant scale of 1.15 on urgent heal's page, this means the incant scaling this seal grants from 30 faith is 171/1.15 = about 149.

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Can confirm status buildup for frenzied burst. Golden order seal requires 2 frenzied burst hit to trigger madness. Dragon seal only one. Tested on okina tarnished summon by spirit calling snail in spiritcallers cave. U guys can test other tarnished only status buildup weapons/spells/incant/ashofwar there

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Who edited the page? The actual softcaps are 45/45, not 30/45, just like any hybrid catalyst.

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For anyone wondering about this on a pure arcane build: at +10, with 80 arcane and 15 faith (15 being the minimum for basic dragon breath attacks) you get an incant of 314, and 319 if you go for 17 faith to use Dragonclaw as well.

I'm currently running 80 arcane and 31 faith, which gives me an incant scaling of 355.

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It doesn't drop from the Ulcerated Tree Spirit.

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Nerf to status buildup has actually made the blood incantations worthless. Oh Fromsoft and your scorched earth nerf policies, will you ever learn?

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After the patch does it still increase blood\poison build up with blood flame and poison armament?

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so, softcaps are 45 faith/45 arc?

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What does the arcane scale affect? I’m sure it affects status effects. But does it also affect the damage of incantations?

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At 60/50 Arc/Fth, I have 353 scaling. I also have 60 int, and Golden Order gets the same. Can't tell which is overall better yet, lol.

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At 60/50 Arc/Fth, I have 353 scaling. I also have 60 int, and Golden Order gets the same. Can't tell which is overall better yet, lol.

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With its insane spell buff of 384, it beats any seal and they don't even come close. It's so high in fact that you're better off using this if you want the most damage out of ANY type of incantation, even beastial or fundamentalist, the seals of which scale with 2 stats. Stone of Gurranq with this does REALLY good damage.

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Still strong damage wise but i can no longer find a difference between the status build up on this seal compared with any other. Shame.

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How bad was the nerf?

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they even nerfed the status buildup on this, lmao

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anyone got experience with the status effect buildup nerf from patch 1.04 on this guy? I love my seal and im sad cuz it sounds like rotten breath wont proc so easily now

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what stats good for a low lvl build with this seal?

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It honestly feels like madness increasing was an entirely unintended result given the fact that the madness seal scales with everything EXCEPT arcane. Either that or the balancing is seriously even worse than I thought

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Anyone has the incant scaling with 25 faith and 80 arcane with this being +10? Thanks!

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I'm offended that you have to associate yourself with stupid-ass dragons if you want your incantations to scale with arc. I'm here for the Tres, Duo, Unus, not for flying away and spewing magma like a little coward.

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Where did the 121 incant scaling come from? Mine has 60 at all upgrade levels.

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30FTH/45ARC is definitely the sweet spot for this seal.

- 15FTH/45ARC = 278 scaling
- 20FTH/45ARC = 291 scaling (+13 scaling)
- 25FTH/45ARC = 305 scaling (+14 scaling)
- 30FTH/45ARC = 318 scaling (+13 scaling)
- 35FTH/45ARC = 324 scaling (only +6 scaling per 5 points of faith)

On the other side of the spectrum, adding 5 ARC (for a total of 50) only receives 323.5 (rounded up to 324) scaling in a 30FTH/50ARC setup, which shows the same diminishing returns as faith in the 35FTH/45ARC example. TLDR: 30FTH/45ARC and go clap some cheeks.

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IDK how accurately spell buff determines damage, but this is the way to go for the highest spell buff: 384 at 80 ARC. Godslayer seal reaches 304 at 70 FTH so i assume it won't even get close.

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So I’ve seen that this increases the build up of madness, but does it also increases the build up of blood loss and poison with spells like swarm of flies and poison mist? I did a little testing on different enemies but I couldn’t really see a difference.

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I think I have a bug regarding skill use?
So I have an ash of war on a dagger (bloodhound's step) on left hand and on right hand I have dragon communion's seal and I get the "No skill" for my trigger. Swapping to other weapons displays the correct skill. If I swap right/left around, the step skill shows up just fine. Or am I doing something very wrong here? lol

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Man the area to get to this is frustrating

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Keep in mind because of the dual scaling the soft cap for arcane is 60 so going past that isn’t worth it. After 60 arcane leveling faith will increase your damage more despite having only B scaling.

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Gets hate mail calling me bad cause arcane crutch

Points to seal that literally scales with arcane

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Does this seal buff the dragon cult incantations, or just the ones gained through spending dragon hearts at the churches?

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for frenzy spells what is better: Dragon communion seal + frenzy flame seal or 2 frenzy flame seals ?

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